Monday, January 29, 2007

Iran, Israel, The Big Lie, and The Real Threat

By Frank Scott

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Posted 01/29 | Add a Comment

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  1. lol ya sure Ahmadinjad never called for the destruction of Israel or USA, visual effects obviously right? and who ever wrote this is living in his own world is he thinks its only USA and Israel who dont want Iran to continue enriching uranium, China, Russia, France, and the UK all voted for sanctions on Iran, ur telling me that they were also fooled by the western media? but lets forget all that and look at the facts, Iran states that they want it for power, a peaceful purpose, but why would a country like Iran with oil coming out there ears, need to make such a stand on nuclear power, why were 60 UN members rejected and thrown out, why was Plutonium 19 found there, a substance that isn’t needed for a reactor? so why does Iran ignore the rest of the world, isolating itself and its people, to obtain something that it has more then it can even handle? its not the western media that leads us to beleive his true intentions, but common sense

    Posted by josh from Canada  on  01/30  at  12:59 AM

  2. Actually Josh, no he did not. This is a propagated false claim, just like we were falsely told that there were WMDs in Iraq, or that Iraq had any connection to Sept 11, why are we there exactly, Josh? I can tender proof that Pres Ahmadinejad did not say “wipe off the map” (an idiom in English, not Persian), what proof do you have, Josh?

    http://tinyurl.com/2aasyt

    You also attempt to claim there is some some of western consensus against Iran, also not true. The loudest sound we hear are the US and Israeli neocon drums of war beating yet again, which you seem to be dancing to the tune of.

    Posted by Ann from Australia  on  01/31  at  07:23 AM

  3. And Josh, nuclear energy is a right that many countries have asserted—have you not heard that oil is peaking? I suggest you run “peak oil” into a search engine for some enlightenment. Yes, Iran is one of the few remaining sites where the cheaper, more easily recoverable sweet oil is available on the planet (Iraq being the other), gee, I wonder why its being eyed by an energy-hungry USA who uses a quarter of the world’s resources and whose economy is predicated upon access to cheap energy, hmmm?

    France derives 60% of its energy from the nuclear industry, many other countries are looking into it, why not Iran? Who are you to deprive Iran of long-term energy security?

    Posted by Ann from Australia  on  01/31  at  07:29 AM

  4. This article is so angry and so WRONG that it’s breathtaking.  I’m only going to point out a few things:

    (1) “The major rationale for Israel’s existence is the Holocaust.” Not true.  Israel came into existence before the Holocaust.  The Balfour Declaration was in 1917.  The British Mandate began after World War I.  By the time the Holocaust began, there were already tens of thousands of Jews in Israel.  Many had been there for generations.

    (2) “A Euro-Jewish and anti-democratic state” Again, this is wrong.  A slight majority of Jews in Israel are refugees from Muslim lands and Africa, not Europe.  Iran had a huge Jewish community for 3,000 years, but when Khomeini took over, they all fled to Israel and the U.S.  Yemen, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Tunisia and Syria also drove out their Jewish populations.  So another reason for Israel’s continued existence is to shelter all the Jewish refugees. 

    Iran forced its Jews to flee to Israel, and now it’s trying very hard to kill them.  That’s your friends.  And of course, the anti-democratic statement is just a silly smear.

    (3) “Jewish organizations working to protect a colonial European state.” Again, Israel is not a European colony.  Also, you seem to believe that the Israeli lobby and “Jewish organizations” have somehow fooled and intimidated EVERYONE, not just in the U.S., but also in Europe.  Apparently the Jews are a lot smarter and more powerful than you and me.  There are only about 15,000,000 of them in the entire world, but somehow they’re always outsmarting us and pushing us around. 

    Good for them.

    Posted by Andrew from USA  on  02/02  at  12:44 PM

  5. Anna,

    Iran’s stated intention to destroy Israel is no “propagated lie.” The article you cite discusses one instance, but Iran has made its intentions clear over and over, many times.  Further, they support Hamas and Hizbullah, both of which have stated their intention to destroy Israel.

    Don’t apologize for bad people.

    In Lebanon, Saad Hariri and Walid Jumblatt (among many others) have said that Iran is pushing Lebanon toward civil war.  Mahmoud Abbas and many other Palestinians have stated that Iran is pushing the Palestinians toward civil war.  In Iraq, Iran is supporting the death squads of Muqtada Al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army.  They also support Ansar Al-Islam, which has been killing Kurds for years.

    Even if you don’t like the US or Israel, that doesn’t make Iran any better.  They are doing many bad things in the world, and there is no need to support them.

    Posted by Andrew from USA  on  02/02  at  03:12 PM

  6. Andrew, you pass off demonstrably false claims as truth—shame on you. The state of Israel was established in 1948, not with the Balfour Declaration. The claim that Iran is trying to kill its Persian Jews is absurdly and patently untrue. Estimates of a thriving Persian Jewish community range from 40,000 to 100,000. The BBC recently had an article here: http://tinyurl.com/yd2w88
    The Jewish community in Iran is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel. Of course there are Jews elsewhere too, such as Lebanon. And let’s not forget how some of the militant Zionists tried underhand means to “encourage” migration to the nascent state of Israel from Arab lands—it wasn’t just expulsions that helped Israel’s population swell, now, was it?

    Sorry, the anti-democratic, nay apartheid, tag is NOT a “silly smear”, it is reality. Or are numerous commentators and eminent figures all wrong, many of them Israelis? Is recent Israeli laureate Shulamit Aloni, former Minister and MK, wrong in calling the apartheid tag right? http://tinyurl.com/23p693
    Is former President Jimmy Carter wrong?

    There was no suggestion that the Israel Lobby intimidates outside of the USA to the same degree, it is you who attempt to put words into peoples mouths. There have been numerous authoritative figures who testify to the intimidatory nature of AIPAC within the USA. And no, this is not anti-Semitic, the Jewish community in the USA is overwhelmingly liberal and progressive, and AIPAC does NOT speak for all of them. Nice try, I never said “Jews were pushing us around”, nor did the article. But that’s part of your own smear tactics.

    Israel is a colonial, settler state. And a racist and apartheid one.  Iran’s theocratic leadership is not crash hot either, certainly. But they have not called for Israel’s actual destruction nor have they invaded a country in recent times as Israel has invaded Lebanon and destroyed her civilian infrastructure. Iran is a member of the NPT which Israel is not and moreover does not nuclear weapons, which Israel does, though it maintains a farcical policy of not officially declaring them.

    I never said I didn’t like Israel or the USA. I have numerous dear friends in both countries. It is the policies of these governments, including Iran’s, that are in question here, Andrew.

    It seems that you’re the one apologizing for unconscionable policies, but I don’t call them “bad people” as you do. That would be too simplistic. Bad guys/ good guys belongs in spaghetti westerns, not thoughtful and nuanced analysis.

    Iran might have some involvement in Lebanon, but so do any number of powers, be they Israel, Syria, or the USA. Whether this is unwarranted and unwelcome influence depends of course on your point of view. Just like the Israel-first Likudniks in the USA are seen as having unwarranted influence of a foreign power and not truly serving American interests. But in your perspective, you don’t believe that, do you?

    Posted by Ann from Australia  on  02/02  at  09:09 PM

  7. Iran has heavy crude too.  They had trouble unloading 12 million barrels of it on the open market some time back.

    Hells Bells, Israel was selling arms to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war until Iran stopped payments on the deals.  They make strange bedfellows.

    [url="http://www.tankerworld.com/"]Iran has now sold 12 million barrels of heavy crude oil from its Soroush and Nowrouz Gulf oil fields, stored in tankers at sea due to lack of market interest in such heavy oils. Royal Dutch Shell and India have bought most of the crude oil, according to a report in Iranian newspaper Jahan-e Eqtesad.

    “Twelve million barrels of Soroush and Nowrouz oil that was stored on eight tankers in addition to crude oil stored in the Sourena, have been supplied to the market inside and outside of Iran in the last two months,” Mahmoud Baharvand, head of import and export co-ordination at the Iranian Offshore Oil Company, told the newspaper on Wednesday, adding that there were three million more barrels left in storage on other tankers.[/url]

    Posted by Ron from murka  on  02/03  at  09:39 AM

  8. Thanks for that Ron, very interesting. On a related point (Iran-Israel trade), apparently Israel owes Iran government payments for oil dating back decades. It was published in the Guardian but is no longer up on their site:

    Matty Friedman of AP writes in an article entitled ‘Report: Israel, Iran Holding Debt Talks’ (6 Dec):

    “Iran is still owed hundreds of millions of dollars for oil it supplied to Israel in the years before the Islamic Revolution in 1979 and the two countries, now sworn enemies, are holding contacts meant to settle the debt, according to the report in the daily Haaretz citing anonymous Israeli and Swiss officials involved in the negotiations.

    Israel and Iran had a close relationship in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, when Iran was ruled by the pro-Western Shah. Israeli companies were given large construction contracts in Iran, the countries cooperated on security and weapons development, and, according to the report, a joint Israeli-Iranian company, Trans Asiatic Oil Ltd., supplied Iranian oil to Israel.

    In 1979, when Shiite clerics ousted the Shah, Iran cut off all contacts with Israel, leaving an Iranian debt to Israeli companies for services rendered and a much larger Israeli debt to Iranian oil suppliers, according to the report.

    Two mediation processes involving different parts of the debt are now ongoing between Iranian and Israeli representatives, the report said, and a third ended recently in a ruling that Israeli fuel companies owe Iran tens of millions of dollars.

    The Israeli Foreign Ministry and international mediation concerns in Geneva refused to comment.”

    Posted by Ann from Australia  on  02/03  at  10:13 AM

  9. I don’t think you understood my points. 

    (1) You’re right, Israel declared its independence and was recognized by the UN in 1948, but the Jews were already there.  Israel was not created because of the Holocaust.  If anything, the Holocaust slowed down the process.  Jews started moving to Israel in large numbers 150 years before independence, and some groups have been there for centuries.  The community in Hebron has been there for over 2000 years (with a brief interuption when the Palestinians massacred them in 1927).  So it is wrong to say that it was created as a result of the Holocaust.  The people were already there, and they have every right to remain there.

    (2) The article you cited says 25,000 Jews in Iran, not 40,000 to 100,000 like you said.  And even that number seems high.  Whatever the number, it’s a fraction of what it once was.  They have all fled.  And if Iran has the largest Jewish community in the ME, it’s because they’ve fled from every other place or been massacred.  So another reason for Israel’s continued existence is to house the Jews driven from their ancestral homes by the Muslim world.

    (3) I did not say Iran was trying to kill the Jews of Iran.  They are more oppressed than the general Iranian population, but they aren’t being killed.  The Iranians are trying to kill the Jews in Israel.  They support Hamas and Hizbullah.  They provide training in bomb making to Hamas so they can kill children.  They also blew up the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

    (4) I didn’t accuse you of anti-Semitism.  YOU used the phrase “Jewish organizations.” I simply marvelled that the “Jewish organizations” keep outsmarting everyone.  According to you, this TINY country somehow keeps getting everyone to do what they want, even though you say they are racist, warlike people with no merit to their cause.  It makes one wonder.  If you’re right, they must be a lot smarter than everyone else.  Otherwise we would have caught on, wouldn’t we?

    (5) Your article said Israel was anti-democratic.  Israel is very clearly a democracy, and it’s silly to deny it.  You have to stick with the facts.

    Posted by Andrew from USA  on  02/03  at  10:36 PM

  10. It looks like I confused the author’s comments with Ann’s comments.  Nonetheless, my basic point is that, regardless of whether one likes Israel’s policies or not, Israel has as much right to exist as any other country.  It is not a European colony.  We are not “allowing” them to continue because of the Holocaust or because we feel guilty about something.  It’s a pointless, useless waste of time to make such worthless arguments, like Mr. Scott does, and in any case it will not result in any positive result.

    Posted by Andrew from USA  on  02/03  at  10:45 PM

  11. I think the U.S. has been handling Iran rather well.  They let the E.U. lead the negotiations for the last four years.  Then they worked with other countries to impose very mild sanctions on Iran.  Basically, no one is to sell them nuclear technology.  The vote for sanctions was unanimous.  Now they are trying to get negotiations started again.

    The U.S. has said repeatedly that it does not intend to attack or bomb Iran.  This is in sharp contrast to what was said prior to the invasion of Iraq. 

    I don’t see why the author should be so upset.

    Posted by Blah blah from Here  on  02/13  at  12:52 AM
    12. Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. {/if}

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