Thursday, October 07, 2004

Of Icebergs and Islands: Captain David Cobb Aids the Collapse of the Left

By Josh Frank

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Posted 10/07 | Add a Comment

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  1. Get into some dry clothes, and let me give you a big bear hug, Joshua.  Oxlove

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/07  at  11:47 PM

  2. http://realchange.org/nader.htm

    That’s the man you support, Josh?  LMAO.

    Way to be principled!

    Posted by swoolley from Portland, Oregon  on  10/08  at  12:54 AM

  3. I previously had 2 articles about Kerry posted on Press Action in February and May. Lately, I usually find myself writing comments to the lists I’m on against those who are attacking people for having a problem with falling in lock step to support or vote for Kerry because of principle or conscience (or politics). However, I have been disturbed by the last couple Joshua Frank pieces. The Green Party is involved in many local races, as well as putting forward an alternative perspective nationally, etc. Whomever you are voting for this year (Kerry or Nader), do you really want to see it go?
    I agee with many of the comments in this article about the muzzled and marginalized “left”. The quotes from Ralph Nader are apt --- whatever one thinks about his candidacy. (Also see 10/7/04 article by Meredith Kolodner on the CounterPunch site.)
    However, it seems to me that Joshua Frank’s attacks on the Green Party and David Cobb are misdirected and often imprecise or fallacious. I don’t understand the point of attacking and further weakening the Green Party in this difficult election year. More fratricide on the left? To try to blame Cobb et al. entirely for the weakness of the Green Party and practically declare it dead is especially troubling. It is a bogus argument to score points about the weakness and lack of popularity of the Green Party now as compared to past years, etc. Ralph Nader isn’t having Super Rallies this year either --- where the political climate is dominated by the Anybody But Bush momentum.
    As a P.S., I actually thought David Cobb did quite well in responding to Joshua’s loaded questions in the previous piece.
    In Solidarity, David Mitchell

    Posted by David Mitchell from Rockland County, New York  on  10/08  at  01:30 AM

  4. Maybe Cobb is for real, not just an infil-traitor. If so, it just shows how extreme mediocrity has become the trademark of American culture (and “the left"), the result of the intensive corporate brain washing that has stolen people’s minds and spirits.

    Posted by Rhino Rick from  on  10/08  at  07:28 AM

  5. Seth Woolley, a self-proclaimed “democratic, anarco-socialist libertarian, anti-fascist, green, pro-affirmative-action, pro-decentralization with allowable balanced-power centralization, pro-union, pro-living wage, anti-war but not pacifist” in Portland, Ore., directs Press Action readers to a website that endorses the tired argument that Nader is to blame for George W. Bush getting elected in 2000. Are you a Green or not? Did you support your party’s nominee in 2000 or not? Are you a democrat or not? As a democrat, don’t you support an open and fair democratic process that lets as many candidates as possible into the election process?

    I can sympathize with Josh’s frustration with a Green Party that doesn’t know if it wants to be a national party or not. Or whether it should run candidates against Democrats in certain local elections or not. I appreciate all the work Josh has done to investigate and report on the shenanigans of the Democratic and Green parties.

    But I also agree with David Mitchell that perhaps too much time is being spent attacking David Cobb, when it’s virtually the entire Left that’s to blame for refusing to immunize itself from this ABB virus. I also was relatively impressed with how Cobb responded to Josh’s strong set of questions.

    Posted by Mark Hand from  on  10/08  at  10:06 AM

  6. Yes, what IS the point of attacking the Green Party and its candidate at this moment? THAT seems to work directly against the goals that Mr. Frank purports to desire.  </br></br>

    Some of Mr. Frank’s comments are deliberate misrepresentations of what he knows about David Cobb. “Cobb even went as far to say that the U.S. can’t just ‘cut and run’ in Iraq. Cobb informed me that he now regrets taking the same position on Iraq as both John Kerry and George W. Bush.” This is one example. Mr. Frank well knows that Mr. Cobb does not and has never shared the stance of Mr. Kerry or Mr. Bush on this issue, and Mr. Frank has deliberately taken the remarks out of context to imply that Mr. Cobb holds a position opposite to the one he actually holds. </br></br>

    I also have to laugh at a couple of statements:
    “What Cobb and most Greens do not realize is that they are inadvertently helping re-elect George W. Bush while giving Kerry a free ride.”
    “Ralph Nader, on the other hand, realizes that many on the Left have lost their spine, and Bush may win as a result.” This from a man who only a month ago celebrated this Jeffrey St. Clair quote: “The only power the Left (loosely speaking) enjoys these days is the power of negation. We can’t elect Nader or Camejo or Jackson. But we can defeat bad Democrats, like Gore and Kerry. Until the Democrats bend in our direction or a new political party rises to challenge them. And it doesn’t take much, other then courage, to make this happen—an all out anti-war & anti-free trade campaign waged in Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Oregon, New Hampshire, Maine and New Mexico. Those are the states that matter. Those are the states that will force the power elite to deal with the Left.” Other Nader supporters have articulated a similar position. Strange how on the one hand Mr. Frank claims that he is deliberately trying to get George Bush re-elected and then in the next instance complains that Cobb—whose stategy is designed to not re-elect Bush—is trying to do the very thing that Mr. Frank thinks we should be doing. And how strange he suggests that Mr. Nader is not trying to do that, when he, Mr. St. Clair and a number of other Nader supporters have specifically indicated that they are trying to ensure that John Kerry loses and Bush is re-elected. </br></br>

    As for Mr. Frank leaving the Green Party, I am sad to see anyone leave the party, but given all the support that Mr. Frank has given the Republicans, perhaps it is not such a bad thing.

    Posted by Blyden from  on  10/08  at  10:52 AM

  7. “...too much time is being spent attacking David Cobb, when it’s virtually the entire Left that’s to blame for refusing to immunize itself from this ABB virus.” This is a comment well worth spending much time contemplating. The point also applies, of course, to many other subjects.  And I trust readers (in the immediate future) will spend that unnecessary, excess energy --what’s wasted on such talk/writing-- on coming up with ways to change things...as per a new article that’ll be posted later today titled PAUL SIMON’S BALLPARK FIGURE.  Best, Richard Oxman

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/08  at  10:56 AM

  8. To add to Ox and Hand’s comments. For me, and many others, the Green Party this election season is THE story for the Left. Their collapse must be dissected.. How can we build an indy movement if folks still believe the Greens are the best alternative?

    As for the interview I did with Cobb. I think his answers speak for himself, but I had to write a column to counter some of his false statements. Hence the article you are all responding to. I, unlike Hand and Mitchell, thought his answers were awful. He failed to address most of the issues. But I digress…

    Posted by Josh from  on  10/08  at  11:08 AM

  9. For my part, I wouldn’t want a given author to “feel bad” about time spent on a given subject as there can be all kinds of legitimate reasons (some of which don’t easily meet the eye at first glance) for doing so. My running complaint, if you will, is that there is too much that’s redundant --WHAT is open to argument, of course-- BUT that THAT is not being acknowledged.  The main thrust of what’s posted, pushed, polished, pontificated upon and applauded ad nauseum goes on unabated...without barely a scintilla of sense respecting the redundancy, the substitution of blah blah for absolutely necessary action.  And that is NOT to say that everyone should be on the streets.  That is NOT to say that people have to change who they are by nature.  It is by way of forcing a confrontation that’s being avoided, that The Left is in denial about.  Best, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/08  at  11:21 AM

  10. The nomination of Cobb was a step backwards for the Green Party and Left. The nomination was done out of fear; ABB hysteria reminds me of 1999 when people were going apeshit about Y2K.

    Cobb and LaMarche are setting out to campaign in “swing states”: Cobb has been inconsistent on the question of whether or not if he is for or against the Iraqi occupation, LaMarche has been inconsistent on the question of whether or not she is going to vote for herself. These two may very well be nice people and there may be ways in which they can greatly contribute to the movement, but running for President and Vice President is not one of them.

    The ABB Greens nominated him to duck the wrath of the liberals. My question: do they not think that they will not incur the wrath of the liberals in future elections????????? What about when Hillary steps to the plate (and she will!)? The liberals LOVE her; they’re political chioces are free of reason or substance. Al Franken, James Carville, Gloria Steinem, and (probably) Michael Moore will raise all hell with any left wing thrid party that dares to challenges her pro-war, pro-rich, anti poor agenda.

    But we do need to move on, as Ox says. We need to decide what to do about the inevitable split that will take place in the Green Party, which was quite weak before Cobb’s nomination.

    Posted by Brandy Baker from Baltimore, Maryland  on  10/08  at  12:00 PM

  11. Oh, and PS: To Seth Wooley (whom I have encountered before).

    Grow up.

    Posted by Brandy Baker from  on  10/08  at  12:10 PM

  12. Thanks for the comments Brandy. I can see how much of this Cobb stuff gets old (like beating a dead horse) for readers of Press Action et al. This particular article is running in an Ohio pub as well as an Oregon alt pub, which I haven’t written about Cobb in before… Maybe that helps put it all in context..

    Posted by Josh from  on  10/08  at  12:20 PM

  13. Now we’re getting somewhere.  I’d love Brandy (and anyone else in the Baltimore area, ‘cause it’s “near enough” to NYC) to contact me to get the proposed protest info I’ll be touching upon again today in my PAUL SIMON’S BALLPARK FIGURE at Press Action.  That would be in the name of organizing “what to do next.” I can tell you know, however, that doing anything significant is going to require leaving the likes of Moore and Franken (and all they stand for) in the dust.  What I’m hoping I’ll get from Brandy --a request for details about The Plan-- I’m also hoping I’ll get from others near NYC and LA (ASAP)...as we’re going to need 150 on each coast.  We CAN do something.  But we must first give up --a very difficult proposition, it seems-- the routines of talk and writing that we’ve taken for granted, gotten to used to substituting for action that will make a difference.  Just got off the phone talking to someone who’s working for Kerry.  He’s shown interest ‘cause he knows that something additional MUST be done.  Something new.  Blessings, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/08  at  12:40 PM

  14. I don’t think that you were beating a dead horse at all Josh. Your piece was appropriate and much appreciated. YOu have done soome excellent investivative reporting on all of this the past several months. I just think that from here on out, we need to focus on life after the Election. Most of the Left is being too short sighted. The real struggle beings Nov 3 no matter which colonialist warmonger wins.

    Richard: what ya got in mind? Is it after the Election? Hope so, can’t get a damn thing done in my neck of the woods because of this Election. E-mail me; right now, I have to got to go to work, so I will be in touch in a few days.

    Best,
    BB

    Posted by Brandy Baker from  on  10/08  at  01:10 PM

  15. Give me your email address ASAP, Brandy.  Ditto for all interested others.  Plenty you can do easily --we need time for prep on this-- plenty all can do easily in leading up to stuff that’ll happen because of us...after election.  My suggestions won’t hold you back from doing what you’re doing now.  No more than entering comments on this site will.  Best, Ox My email is If anyone doesn’t hear back from me w/i 24 hours of writing me...something’s amiss on my end...and I hope you’ll give me a second (courtesy) email.  Let’s move now.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/08  at  02:00 PM
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