Friday, December 03, 2004

Lila Lipscomb and Michael Moore: A Slice of Unprincipled American Selfishness

By Glorious Revolutionary Federation

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Posted 12/03 | Add a Comment

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  1. Typical American Rhetoric......

    Of course Lila considered things different when the war affected her personally.  Maybe it would be a good idea if ALL Americans took the war personally.  But Americans are such a bunch of insensitive....red-neck---under educated....over religiou--------morons...that they have no idea that we are engaged in an unjust war.

    Posted by Dave from Hell  on  12/03  at  08:23 AM

  2. “In other words, only when the war started to affect her personally did she even bother to consider it more deeply.”

    You got it! Now we’ll just have to wait, until *you* will be personally affected, and maybe we will get it then.

    Posted by Michael Elsdörfer from  on  12/03  at  09:34 AM

  3. I will never agree to use the word “war” for Irag’s mess. It’s and invasion of other sovereign country.  It’s illegal and there is no way around it. 
    I posted this question somewhere:
    “if you notice that your neighbor beating his wife and children, will you storm into his house, occupy it, if he does not do what you want him to do, you will kill him, without calling the PROPER AUTHORITY????? In this country, the last time I checked, the answer is NO.
    Iraq invasion is in the same logic as the above question, it’s illegal.  Anybody care to comment on this???????

    Posted by DH from  on  12/03  at  10:17 AM

  4. GRF is right on the money.  Our personal universes need to expand to include every human being as a part of us, not just those human beings that we are related to or have an acquaintance with.  It is the illusion of our separateness from other human being that is the foundation for our failure to act on their behalves.  Thanks for pulling the curtain on the Wizard of Oz of Self-Centered Principled Action, GRF.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/03  at  10:55 AM

  5. I have to say that I disagree with that piece profoundly.  Its the equivalent of Goldhagen’ “Hitlers Willing Executioners” argument that Finkelstien disproved.  One cannot - at least from a radical standpoint - blame hardworking proles for believing their government.  According to Danny Schecter “news dissector” typical Emricans have one hour a day of news consumption.  Not all of us have the privilege of working on computers. 

    And I can say from experience that the symbolism of “mothers” who protest against wars their sons are in are usually succesful.  When the movement against Israel’s war in Lebanon started it was considered fringe, unworth.  But when “Women in Black” mothers of soldiers starting appearing, it turned the whole country around.  Soon Israel left Lebanon.  Hezbollah can take credit to be sure - great fighters they are, but Israeli moms did it too.

    Posted by j cummings from  on  12/03  at  11:23 AM

  6. “But Americans are such a bunch of insensitive....red-neck---under educated....over religiou--------morons...that they have no idea that we are engaged in an unjust war."- Dave from Hell

    You must be surrounded by them down there, eh?

    You’re being a little tough on the ‘good Americans’. 

    Actually, the canary is dead.  The rush to the opening in the mineshaft is just beginning.

    Posted by MDPB from  on  12/03  at  12:38 PM

  7. The Glorious Federation’s ‘two minutes of hate’ is not so glorious.  Really, you don’t have to be so harsh on Lila Lipscomb. Give the world a break.

    The war is bad enough the way it is.  Condemn the war, not the victims.  We’re all victims in this mess, we can thank the war-mongering, avaricious neocons for that.

    Pick on somebody who needs to be picked on, not some poor, defenseless, grieving woman.  How cruel.  You should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Posted by MDPB from  on  12/03  at  01:01 PM

  8. I tend to agree with MDPB ... this was in poor taste, unfunny and a display of errant focus.

    Posted by Theo from Greece  on  12/03  at  02:27 PM

  9. Wrong.  We need to attack everything and everybody advocating unprincipled stances, regardless of how cuddly they are to our emotional sensibilities.  What a bunch of weak-kneed leftists.

    Posted by Luther von Gergen from  on  12/03  at  02:32 PM

  10. Errant focus?  I think not.  If anything, it focuses in on a significant reason why many atrocities are permitted to continue.  They don’t personally and directly affect the myopic definition that “family” has for some of us.  When we will weep for and act on behalf of sons and daughters who may not be connected to us by blood, the world may have a chance of changing.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/03  at  02:36 PM

  11. If you give no thought to what is going on around you until you get screwed.... what are you going to get?

    This how most of the people in the US function.  Blind trust.  Some because they’re too busy trying to make ends meet, some cause they’re to damn selfish… some just don’t like to think or feel powerless to make change.

    That’s the point of this harsh but true article.  IMO

    MM endorsed a war criminal for president that he himself exposed in his previous movie.  SELL OUT.

    Posted by FluxRostrum from earth  on  12/03  at  02:42 PM

  12. I only take issue with one characterization in your post, FR.  What you see as “blind trust”, I see as willful ignorance.  Trusting someone or something involves an active decision to place your trust in that person or thing.  Most of the folks that I talk to on the supermarket line haven’t reached that point yet.  They prefer to not know too much, lest they have to be responsible for what they know.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/03  at  02:49 PM

  13. Expecting Moore to be right-on about politics is like expecting Alexander Cockburn to make an entertaining comedic bizaare documentary.  From each according to his ability...(Moore is while huge, more Werner Herzog than anyone else)

    Posted by j cummings from  on  12/03  at  02:56 PM

  14. *

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from  on  12/03  at  06:03 PM

  15. Michael Moore is a left winger with humanity, tolerance, forgiveness and wisdom. Lila Lipscomb is a woman who erred and realized she did, unlike all these monstrous bigots who keep on supporting Bush and hating Moore even though their sons died for nothing. The article I just read was rhetorical, unrealistic and deeply inhuman. Give me weak-kneed sell-outs any time and God save us from the Judean People Front… I mean, the Glorious whatever.

    Posted by Stan called Loretta from  on  12/03  at  06:12 PM

  16. Jordy, could you contexualize the reference you made to Werner Herzog?

    Posted by RzG from  on  12/03  at  07:11 PM

  17. Lila deserves compassion. There is a big information gap between those who spend time on computers and those who do not, BUT at what point do we hold people responsible for their own decisions? NR, I see it as willful ignorance, too. Since WE are informed, it is our responsibility to be doing something about the big information gap. I have publicly offered to share information with those in my community who do not have computers. The problem is that people do not know, what they do not know. They all think that they are well informed because they watch the nightly news. Thank you for the PA site and this article. Most of the Peace Activists that I know still are praising MM and the film. Sad. MM lost my respect when he bad-mouthed Nader.

    Posted by rosemarie jackowski from  on  12/03  at  07:24 PM

  18. Unfortunately whatever useful analysis and critisizm the ‘Federation’ has on offer, it is usually obscured by these rather
    heavy handed, ‘hard-man’ proclamations. Indeed there IS a point to be made about people only being anti-war when they are personally affected. As we all know, the genuine anit-war movement was never about ‘cost to American’ or whether the war was ‘winable’ of ‘mismanaged.’ But I must say losing a son is a severe price to pay for political ignorance/obliviousness and selfishness. I honestly think the “Glorious Fed...” is just a bit too intrested with ‘shock value’ and ‘pissing of liberals’ . They could do better....

    Posted by BruceA from  on  12/03  at  07:48 PM

  19. “I honestly think the Glorious Fed… is just a bit too intrested with â shock value and pissing of liberals. They could do better....”

    For those who sleepwalk through life, a pebble in one’s shoe (or house slipper) serves a useful purpose.  And I don’t know anyone who is immune to some form of sleepwalk.  Even the more awakened need a pebble, every once in a while.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/03  at  08:25 PM

  20. This author is simply an intelligent egomaniac, no more, no less.

    And then there’s Luther, the totalitarian: “We need to attack everything and everybody advocating unprincipled stances, regardless of how cuddly they are to our emotional sensibilities. What a bunch of weak-kneed leftists.”

    Oh, I can’t WAIT for their revolution. Should be any day now…

    Posted by Christopher from Berkeley, California  on  12/03  at  09:19 PM

  21. Michael Moore is a world-acclaimed, award-winning artist, fimmaking pioneer and genius, and no amount of right-wing wacko-attacko nonsense from you or others will change this siimple fact. There is no reason for our young people to die needlessly, and that, my friend, is that.

    Regards, Ken Berg
    Orlando Florida

    Posted by Ken Berg from Orlando, Florida  on  12/03  at  09:30 PM

  22. I guess it is difficult to be working class when you sit on the podium at Columbia.

    Posted by Tom Volscho from Univ. of Connecticut  on  12/03  at  09:52 PM

  23. The majority of Columbia kids are on financial aid, you idiot.

    Posted by Luther von Gergen from  on  12/03  at  11:11 PM

  24. “Michael Moore is a world-acclaimed, award-winning artist.” For another view of MM’s wonderful movie, visit http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Jensen0707.htm. I would have to say that the views expressed there are not “right-wing wacko-attacko nonsense.”

    Posted by Greg Stricherz from Minneapolis, MN  on  12/03  at  11:42 PM

  25. So true. He also got his fair share of left-wing wacko-attacko nonsense. Thanks for reminding us.

    Posted by Stan called Loretta from  on  12/04  at  12:30 AM

  26. Along this same line, and because most Americans need to be personally affected for them to give a shit about an issue, the sham of our drug war will continue unabatedly… with many Americans in jail who ought not to be.  Until, that is, enough members of enough familes are jailed… for people to start giving a shit about the other war.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/04  at  02:11 AM

  27. Moore and Herzog make similar documentaries - all over the map, replete with internal contradictions, that make them somewhat politically suspect (Herzog got attacked for making a sympathetic doc on televangelists) - but the medium itself, to quote Mcluhan is the message.  Of course Moore is all over the map, as is Herzog.  If Herzog were born in Flynt, not Hamburg, he’d be Moore.  Not that “Canadian Bacon” compares with say, “Agguire Wrath of God”

    Posted by j cummings from  on  12/04  at  10:16 AM

  28. Hi Luther ... It’s not about anyone’s cuddliness. Although it remains sad common American conscience can only grasp the war horror when its necessary loss begins to crush its world, I personally think attacking people for their wanting consciousness or less principled stances only revolutionary if also designed to build up that consciousness. What do I mean by that? In the GRFF5K statement the point is rightly made that Moore’s Lila moment is a part of the anti-Bushist analysis of the war. It’s followed with an exhortation for Lila to get out of the way so that the ‘principled antiwar alternative’ can get to work. I think a more revolutionary message would have been to encourage all the Lilas to challenge those assumptions themselves (which apparently can be ingrained deeply), engage themselves in deeper antiwar understanding and become part of that principled alternative. I did not read this as such an ideological challenge but more of a single level insult. Although it’s to be hoped that the shock factor here could effect such political introspections (the obvious aim of the piece and a good tactic), I think it could have been done more effectively. I further do not think a sense of solidarity deep when unaccompanied by sympathy ... sympathy for all victims. And that’s a question of principle.

    Posted by Theo from Greece  on  12/04  at  10:31 AM

  29. “Although it’s to be hoped that the shock factor here could effect such political introspections (the obvious aim of the piece and a good tactic), I think it could have been done more effectively,”

    29 posts in one day.  Not bad for stirring political introspection, eh?

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/04  at  10:35 AM

  30. There isn’t much more that can be said. 

    Get a glimpse of Bush’s war:

    http://www.fallujahinpictures.com/

    It’s such a nice war on Fox News.  They’re ‘fair and balanced’ and quite out of their minds, too.

    Posted by MDPB from  on  12/04  at  10:41 AM

  31. I dunno if these 29 (now 30, making me 10% thereof) posts are instances of the Lilas’ desired introspection I mention NR. I imagine that’s because no solidaric gesture was made them.

    Posted by Theo from Greece  on  12/04  at  10:43 AM

  32. To perform an introspective re-evaluation of your personal view of the world, Theo, you first have to open your eyes.  Closed-eye-lid introspection may be entertaining, but it serves little value unless you come out of your trance first.  Rude awakenings serve their purpose.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  12/04  at  10:50 AM

  33. The point of including Lisa’s story is to emphasize the need for everyone to take war as a personal injury.  I think the movie is very effective as an antiwar film.

    Posted by Jeremy from San Diego  on  12/04  at  07:55 PM

  34. Realy good site!

    Posted by Gaby from USA  on  09/16  at  05:33 AM

    35. Next entry: Pat Tillman and Ricky Williams

    Previous entry: The Return of Factsheet 5

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