Monday, November 08, 2004

The ABB Logic of Retreat Has Been Discredited: Now We Must Advance

By M. Junaid Alam

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Posted 11/08 | Add a Comment

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  1. Those who “must be defeated” (in the context provided) include the vast majority of the numbskulls who supported Kerry...so easily...over such a long period...when he put forth nothing more...and no worse...and zero different...than what previous Dembos did before him.  One must ask the very hard question about WHY someone (other than a Chomsky or a LaDuke, both w very complex agendas/considerations) took part in the Kerry campaign.  That “constituency” is not being criticized as it should.  Rather, most comments now are being directed at how this or that slant should have been adopted.  Kerry More To The Left would still have drawn people who are not willing to undermine the fundamental presented by The Powers.  People into CHANGE are going to have to be open to the possibility of having to work w very small #s as they simultaneously put just a few eggs in the electoral basket.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/09  at  01:07 AM

  2. A good specific e.g. for #1 that also applies to my recent WHICH WAY PROGRESSIVES COMMENT can be found in the “progressives” that push the consumerism and marketing associated w the GreenFests that are so popular among The Left. They are a huge problem w a huge following.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/09  at  01:23 AM

  3. I still chuckle when I see the words “ABB” and “logic” hold positional hands with each other.  Tactically, how the Dems ever concluded that the fear of George Bush (which is the underpinning of many ABBers) could electorally trump the fear of God (which is the underpinning of many Repubs) still escapes me.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/09  at  10:36 AM

  4. I work in a “progressive” academic office, and it made me sad to see people with whom I share similar political ideals jumping for joy every time Nader was thrown off a state ballot.  Nader spoke at Cooper Union here in Manhattan right before the election and I watched Kerry supporters berating those on the streets who were passing out fliers to promote the event.  It is beyond me how people could back Kerry so strongly when he supported 90% of Bush’s agenda in the last four years.  Progressives need to reevaluate this ABB mentality.  If Hitler were running against Bush, would we all be standing tall behind GW?  At the rate the two major parties are going, this analogy might not be so far fetched in the coming future.  Part of the solution is to start supporting grassroots movements that are trying to implement IRV on local levels.  http://www.fairvote.org is a great resource for info this subject.

    Posted by nicole sunday from  on  11/10  at  02:25 PM

  5. I trust Mark will post my new piece KERRYON IN A FOG, OR NADERON AS PER FALLON? on this site as it addresses the very issues Nicole raises here. I would only underscore for now that although IRV should be supported, we must acknowledge that the Republicrats will NEVER allow it to function as it is intended...regardless of what might be eeked out onto the official books. Why would people making billions of dollars allow such a thing to grow wings?  The “it” that’s in our power is twofold: a) to follow Nicole’s lead with the grassroots stuff AND b) to get involved in OTHER means...for forcing such democratic measures onto The Powers plate.  How?  See my article on this past weekend’s http://www.counterpunch.org site. Loving best, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/10  at  04:42 PM

  6. When I floated the idea that if Nader got 15 million votes, it would have shaken things up:

    “I think someone other than Nader needs to head the 3rd party. People are never going to vote for him, he’s been around too long, and people are tired of him. I agree with many of the things he says, but the party needs a different face if it going to start increasing in size.”

    Setting aside how much nonsense this is, I wonder if this opinion represents what a lot of lliberals out there think?

    Posted by Rhino Rick from  on  11/10  at  06:27 PM

  7. You can go to the http://www.sandiegomoon.com blog by clicking on the sidebar list of alternative sites. Please see my KERRYON IN A FOG, OR NADERON AS PER FALLON? which is now on Kap Fulton’s site. It touches upon the Nader-related issues Rhino brings up here plus. Give me feedback, if you will.  Best, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/10  at  07:30 PM

  8. Unfortunately, Rhino, I think it does.  At least it seems to be the case with the folks I personally run into.  As far as I am concerned, however, if Ralph’s positions on the issues were squarely alligned with your positions on the issues… and you chose to vote for someone else or not vote at all… then you’re part of the problem in my eyes.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/10  at  10:45 PM

  9. ROx, will check out your blog and article, thanks. Asap.

    Nice to meet your Nader Rider. Firstly, sometimes anecdoctal evidence can say quite a bit about the culture. Thanks for the confirmation (unfortunately). To critique my ABB friend’s statement:

    a) He does not give a reason someone else has to head the third party. So its an empty sentence.

    b) “people are never going to vote for him” fails on the grounds that in the past, three million plus did vote for him, and the reason people don’t vote for him in greater numbers is undoubtedly due that he is shut out of the media (and by the Dem scumbags who fought to keep him off the ballots in several states). This is self fulfilling nonsense. That pretty girl will never go to the prom with me, so why ask? (true in my case, sadly).

    c) “He’s been around too long” makes no sense if experience is something you look for in a leader.

    d) “the party needs a different face” sounds superficial, didn’t the Democrats need a different face other than that unappealing, Depleted Skull and Radioactive Bonehead Kerry in order to build their party? We have seen what a new face in the form of David I want to supply flush toilets to all Americans Cobb has resulted in, 105,000 votes, which ain’t many.

    Posted by Rhino Rick from  on  11/11  at  01:29 AM
    10. Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. {/if}

    Next entry: An Open Letter to Mr. Nader: Help End the Radioactive War Crimes

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