Sunday, August 22, 2004

Write In Nader ... The W.I.N. Campaign

By Rosemarie Jackowski

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  1. I am with you as far as being for Nader in the context you provide, much as I supported Mickey Z’s article on virtually the same topic in these quarters a short while ago.  However, WHAT SAY YOU if I say --in response to your quote below-- that quadruple the figure you give will NOT influence Washington in the direction of no more wars?  Here it is:
    “Think about it. What is the percentage of votes needed to make an impression in Washington? In this election, 3 or 4 percent might be the magic number.” You ask if someone has a “better idea,” and suggest that you’d be open to thinking about it.  WHAT THINK YOU of my Leno idea?  Best, Collegue Ox

    Posted by Colleague Ox from  on  08/23  at  12:10 PM

  2. To Colleague Ox, #1 A vote for Nader is equal to 20 or 30 votes, as compared to the votes gotten by the Democrat or Republican.  This is because, the way that I look at it, the real value of a vote is inversely proportional to the comparative amount of Media attention that that Candidate has received.  So, in the Court of Public Opinion, 3 or 4 % will be a win, taking into consideration the handicap put on Nader by his exclusion from the Media and more importantly his exclusion from the Debates.
    #2 I agree with you, that that would not put an end to war, but it would be a step in the right direction.  I believe that Wars will always be a part of Capitalism and that wars will continue until the U.S. changes its system. To me,Capitalism is just the belief that capital is more important than people, the belief that profit is more important than labor.....I think that Nader has a long history of showing that he values human beings more than corporations.  PEACE, rosemarie jackowski

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/23  at  06:19 PM

  3. I thank you for responding in such detail. But what do you think of the Leno idea?  And, more importantly, how do you reconcile the electoral recommendations you’re putting forth with what Arundhati Roy said last week in San Francisco?  For details on the latter...you can consult http://www.democracynow.org as they featured her revolutionary talk on the show today.  This is a very important question I’m asking the Activist Community, not just you.  Please look for a posting of my upcoming “INDISCREET STREET GOOGLING: ARUNDHATI ROY FOR PRESIDENT” here at Press Action.  Merci for your kind consideration.  Sincerely, Ox

    Posted by Sincere Ox from  on  08/23  at  07:23 PM

  4. TO Ox...Arundhati Roy was on C-span, a couple of days ago.  She is great.  I’m sorry...I don’t know about the Leno idea.  Tell me about it.  rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/24  at  09:09 AM

  5. Thanks. I’ve been dropping aspects of the Leno/Letterman idea for Press Action readers in several articles/comments. We want to connect w people living w/i striking distance of LA and NYC...as we can...legally...with small numbers...interfere with the taping of the shows...night after night...about six months from whenever we’ve formed our groups...and, thereby, draw attention of national media...and “force” education on the public by virtue of disrupting their OPIATE INGESTION.  This is NOT one of those demos that will come and go...in and of itself...and it has great potential to inspire others to conduct similar projects on other territory. It is sad that so many details have to be given to entice readers to jump in and/or refer friends to me. Surprise is an important element here.  Thus far...I haven’t revealed enough details to interfere w the plan, but...as you can understand, I hope, it is best to leave the remaining details regarding tactics...on a need to know basis.  Even if this very missive got in the hands of a Leno employee...I don’t think they would take it seriously at this point, but discretion is called for, very definitely. They simply do not have the security setup to deal with what we have planned.  On the QT, OX ps the alternative, I’m afraid, is the violence Roy “predicts” and which my O’Connor article delineates.

    Posted by QT Ox from  on  08/24  at  10:09 AM

  6. To Ox, Yes, your idea of “forced education” is an important one.  We, in this country, have been so brain washed, by the culture, the schools, etc.  School textbooks are a real problem. Too many of them leave out the most important information.  I have a project called, “The Blum-Zinn Project”.  It is an attempt to have books by those authors used in schools etc.  Good luck with your project.  Never give up.  PEACE, Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/25  at  05:43 PM

  7. Good to hear the feedback, Rosemarie. With regard to RJ’s Blum/Zinn Project...I ask everyone to respond to what Dr. James Loewen lays out in LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME.  To wit, using Mississippi as an example (where he had first hand experience), he makes it very clear why it’s very, very unlikely (to say the least)...that such inroads will be made.  The adoption of alternative textbooks is CRUCIAL, but...let’s have everyone weigh in here on the fact that adoption of what we want is a) unlikely, b) (considering what concessions MIGHT be made) not worth the effort (also considering the TIME it’ll take...to make the slightest of dents, and c) how easy it would be to ignore the mere presence of a volume here or there in a given library.  I submit that one might as well be addressing the issue of “saluting the flag” simultaneously...if you’re going to have the impact I’m sure you want.  We don’t have a lot of time.  Iran certainly doesn’t.  Best, Ox

    Posted by Subtext Oxin from  on  08/25  at  07:11 PM

  8. It is very interesting that you mention Loewen.  He is from Vermont and I was recently in brief contact with him.  I am not as familiar with his works as I am with the works of Zinn and Blum.  I will be sure to get Loewen’s books asap.  You say that, “We don’t have a lot of time”.  I agree.  Every day lost, means lives lost somewhere on the Globe.  It is a Perfect Storm of Capitalism and Culture. Capitalism needs the money from wars and our culture supplies the violence necessary for a militaristic society.  I really admire people like you who are so dedicated to changing things.  Right now, I am very pessimistic.  I keep thinking of that old quote, “We do not protest to change others, We protest so that others will not change us”.  I might be going to prison, but it will be worth it if it means that I was not silent in the face of evil.  Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/25  at  08:44 PM

  9. I may have a free copy to send you of Loewen’s LIES ACROSS AMERICA...which is about ignorance compounded on these shores vis-a-vis its monuments. Consider NOT going to prison, ok?  How long would you, possibly, be “away” if you are incarcerated?  Hugs, Ox

    Posted by The Booxkster from  on  08/25  at  09:34 PM

  10. To Ox:  Thank you again for your kind words. I have been thinking about your idea of “forced education”. What is the most important, concise message that you would like to bring out to the brain-washed masses?  One of the bits of info that I often use is the list of countries that have been bombed by the U.S. since WW2 as compiled by Blum. I have found that that is often effective.  The hard part is that we have to undo many years of mis-information and propaganda from all sources.  Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/26  at  02:20 PM

  11. It depends on who you’re addressing, Rosemarie. For instance, many of the Zombie-nazis walking the streets of Los Gatos --money up their noses and stuffed in their kids’ back Gap pockets-- could care less to learn...that we are bombing daily around the world in one form or another. So...giving away Mickey Z’s book (SAVING PRIVATE POWER), for instance, does little good (even though it does an excellent job of condensing a lot of what Blum covers in palatable form). Such people need shock therapy that interferes with business as usual. Others, activists on the periphery, say, might very well benefit from Blum. But I do think that there’s been overload with respect to our overseas abominations...and that, relatively, very little attention has been brought to what Mickey Z has underscored in these quarters often...The Vegan Issue.  That can be connected to people’s daily lives...requiring that they consider personal changes...as opposed to changes that only require intellectual masturbation, that only dwell in the realm of what won’t affect personal comfort.  By the way, I’ve been in touch with Loewen too.  best, ox

    Posted by Vegan Ox from  on  08/26  at  02:44 PM

  12. In addition to what I recommended in #11 above, I should note that Mark Zepezauer’s revised edition of TAKE THE RICH OFF WELFARE is an excellent (clear, concise) treatment of what is wrong with the status quo...from a financial point of view, etc. I mention “financial” because that’s the core of the work.  It shows how ALL citizens --including the very few who would “suffer” financially if his suggestions were adopted-- would benefit by slicing up the pie differently, making changes in the tax structure, subsidies provided, etc.  The public dole is being ripped off...and NOT by welfare moms!  Mark gives readers wonderfully useful information with which to impress people of all political stripes.  I would only caution you to not permit those you are trying to reach...to fall into the comfy trap of simply joining a group that he lists...or adopting one or two of the useful strategies outlined.  It will only be of value --in the final analysis-- if you use it set people on fire, get them drawn deeply into the battle to set things “more healthy” for the commons...less destructive...and get them to focus on more than cosmetic, half-hearted changes.  The Vegan/Zepezauer Ox

    Posted by Vegan/Zepezauer Ox from  on  08/26  at  03:48 PM

  13. To Ox:  I don’t think that there has been too much emphasis on our overseas abominations.I think that that is an issue that is still being ignored by most.  How else can you explain why the Media never deals with the issue of the civilian deaths in Iraq ?  I recently took an unscientific poll and asked a question of some of the most well informed authors, historians, and writers that I know.  My question to them was, “How many lives have been lost due to U.S. foreign policy since WW 2?” How would you answer that question ? I would appreciate getting answers to that question from from a lot of people.  My unscientific poll is still going on.  I agree with you on the “shock therapy” that is needed by most.  Peace, rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/27  at  06:01 PM

  14. William Blum was at OneDance --an event Sylvie and I produced-- recently...so it would be unfair to include me in your poll; I’ve been using his books plus for years.  I don’t think you’re getting my point about overload on overseas abominations...or the thrust of my Pilger/Zinn piece.  Of course, it’s being ignored...and of course most people don’t know the stats, the figures. And I’m sure if you think for a moment you’ll see very clearly WHY The Media never deals with those numbers...and why they won’t in the future.  My point...that you’re following up on...concerns the fact that activists --other than peripheral activists (who you have to inform of the figures one-on-one)-- KNOW the thrust of what we’ve been doing, continue to do...and much about the details, the consequences.  People who are “patriots,” by the way are going to spin the figures...even if you sit them down and FORCE them to absorb your numbers.  With ALL respect, you’re kind of trying to reinvent the wheel...if you’re trying to establish that the U.S. has been BAD since WWII.  If you’re going to do that...you might as well focus on what was BAD before WWII that led to the post-WWII horrors.  But...ALL those figures will not get you where I think you must want to go. To wit, the “shock therapy” WILL have a shot at getting those who are not already too far gone to consider...opening up.  Facts alone will not do it.  And, again, The Media and The Schools will not allow you to loudspeak the numbers to The Public.  Hugs, Ox

    Posted by Historical/Hysterical Ox from  on  08/27  at  06:19 PM

  15. To Ox:  I think that I agree with what you just said.  I think that you are saying that all of the important historical information is already out there, so why are we all still writing about it.  You have a point.  I have been thinking along those lines myself.  Are you saying that NOW IS THE TIME FOR ACTION, NOT WRITING?  I would agree with that too, but once you have “shocked” them, you have to explain to them why, and so that is where writing from many different sources that all say the same thing will come in handy.  Writing should not take the place of ACTION.  Maybe it should just be something you do in between time.  PEACE, Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/27  at  06:49 PM

  16. You exhibit great health with the stance you’re taking here, Rosemarie.  My basic response is to be found in the Pilger/Zinn piece.  However, let me add...lest there be confusion...it’s NOT a question of action versus writing, but the relative amount of time/heartbeats are devoting to one over the other.  Having said, that, YES...we must move immediately. Once “shocked” people will not necessarily need for us to “explain” anything...but, rather, show them an alternative.  Short of that, the mere interruption of their routines...as per the Leno idea...will give them a shot to explain to themselves WHY people might want to stop business as usual.  Alternatively, it’s very easy --without devoting all of the time that’s being devoted to creating new sources-- to lead people to “explanations” once you have their undivided attention.  As per Arundhati Roy, you certainly do not need a PLAN to offer up as a substitute for a given system you want to tear down, however.  Hugs, Ox

    Posted by Huggy Ox from  on  08/27  at  07:19 PM

  17. A vote for Nader is a vote against everything that Nader used to stand for—it’s a vote for Bush. It’s really rather irresponsible and the heighth of idiocy to take any votes away from Kerry and help Bush win another election. One need not be politically astoute to understand that Bush will be laughing all the way to the White House, again, thanks to the Nader idealists. Do you really think one person in the next Bush administration will think about changing course and adopting Nader policies? Wake up dreamers! You are again causing the opposite of what you desire!

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/30  at  04:29 PM

  18. It’s really irresponsible of YOU, Paul, to be investing so much faith in the electoral process.  But, even within that limited framework, you should be asked to account for your suggestion that one person in a Kerry administration would “change course” and adopt Nader-like policies. Before you launch into a “stock response,” please let the readers know if you’re familiar with the “tirades” that have been coming from Jeffrey St. Clair and Alexander Cockburn and Mickey Z et. al. with regard to the “undesirability” of Kerry & Co.  Merci, merci, Le Ox

    Posted by Le Ox from  on  08/30  at  04:53 PM

  19. I think that some smart person once said that it is better to vote for something you want and not get it, than to vote for something that you don’t want and get it.  The Democtatic Platform Committee must be held accountable for the platform that it created.  Remember that they refused to state that the War is a mistake.  That leaves ALL of those who oppose the war without a candidate unless they go to independent or third party candidates.  If the Democrats don’t win this election, they have only themselves to blame. I would NOT vote for someone who supports this war for a million dollars.  There are 13,000 reasons for not voting for either Bush or Kerry.  They are all buried in Iraq.  PEACE, Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/30  at  05:18 PM

  20. Dear La Ox:
    The whole world knows that either Bush or Kerry will win the election. If you believe that it makes no difference which prevails, because the policies the two will institute are the same (be it tax cuts to the top 2%, protection of Alaska’s wildlife preserve, EPA enforcement of clean air standards, reestablishing a multilateral foreign policy, etc.), then I’m wasting my time. You’re caught up in the tirades (your word) and thus you’re missing my point. Nader can never influence U.S. policy because he will never be U.S. president. Even you must grant this much. But, Nader supporters can get some of the things they want because their values converge at some level with the Democratic platform. But, La Ox wants everything, and thus votes to elect his ideological rival win! Brilliant strategist!

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  09:44 AM

  21. Dear Rosemarie,

    There’s something very courageous and principled in your comments, particularly the piece about “some smart person” and what he or she might have at some point said. But, come on, let’s not be so resentful! And if we are to be resentful, why must it be so misguided? You love PEACE. Great! So, it was Bush that led us into war. Punish him! Don’t HELP him get elected by taking a crucial vote away from Kerry. In any case, where is the perspective? Sometimes wars are worth waging, for the same reason you mention, saving lives. Remember over 800,000 Rowandans were massacred while we knowingly stood by. Tens of thousands have been killed in Darfur and diplomacy is at a stalemate. You would not suggest waging war against the Nazis was a mistake, do you? Remember they never attacked us, they were just masacring people in Europe, very far away. And, most people think that the humanitarian intervention in Kosovo was well worth it, even though, no doubt, NATO planes killed innocent civilians. If it’s true that between 600,000 and 1 million Iraqis (as some estimates have it) were killed by Saddam’s regime (not including the wars he offensively waged) then allowing “PEACE” to reign is morally irresponsible. Just like La Ox, you don’t care about perspective. You mourn the 13,000, but you are more than willing to sacrifice many more than that, year after year, by offering the most cruel monsters amnesty through PEACE.

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  10:16 AM

  22. To all of those who are really intent on defeating Bush, I have a plan for you.  This is a strategy guaranteed to get Bush out of the White House.  All you have to do is convince Kerry to drop out of the race.  That would make it possible for Nader to debate Bush.  Which candidate, do you think, would win the election after a Nader-Bush Debate ?  PEACE, Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/31  at  10:18 AM

  23. Dear All,

    Please digest some history books. Capitalism is new, 350 years at most. Wars are old and have existed globally. How can you blame war on capitalism? Are you going to blame the Pelopenesian wars or the 100 year war on capitalism too? Before all of you Oxes and Rosemarie become so militant why don’t you get your GEDs? You sound like some disaffected 5th grade spoiled brats “wannabe” teachers starving for attention. You think you will “educate” the nation by “acting the fool”? Give yourselves a break!

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  10:39 AM

  24. Dear Paul, I am not a Pacifist.  I simply am opposed to the killing of civilians. In a perfect world, no one would ever kill anyone.  In the real world, I accept that people will have organized slaughters and call that human experience “War”. That is just the way that it is.  Therefore, (until humans evolve further) I reluctantly accept armed conflict, as long as the rules of engagement NEVER allow the killing of civilians.  That is my bottom line. I do not believe that the killing of civilians during WW 2 was any more justified then than it is now.  I advocate an international policy which would bring about a world-wide boycott on ANY nation that kills civilians.  When the first bomb hits the first civilian, that nation and ALL of its exports should come under a world-wide boycott and the offending nation should have to give up ALL of its weapons.  PEACE, Rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  08/31  at  10:53 AM

  25. The Nader demands do NOT converge at any meaningful level with any Democratic plan for action.  On the level of “platform” there is some peripheral overlap, but that has zero to do with making change. Kucinich-type of appeals only served to reinforce the notion that the electoral process is not a scam, that by joining hands with the Dems you could at least get something positive done.  That flys in the face of the entire history of the Democratic Party. It is time for readers to acknowledge, including Oreza, that Kerry is no more of a sign of hope for this nation than Kennedy was or Clinton or Carter et. al.  The question here was NEVER whether or not Nader could be elected.  The point is ONLY that it is crystal clear that only cosmetic touching up will take place with Kerry at best, cosmetics designed to simply keep the public at bay.  Why do you continue to talk about Bush leading us into war when he couldn’t have done it without the help of Democrats.  People who think the Dems were “fooled” by Bush don’t know the history of this country. People who do believe that probably believe that politicians on both sides of the aisle were “fooled” into being scammed by the S&L crisis.  The Nazis who need war waged against them...are the Nazis at the helm here at home...and their supporters...which would include Oreza.  Statements like: “And, most people think that the humanitarian intervention in Kosovo was well worth it, even though, no doubt, NATO planes killed innocent civilians” betray severe ignorance and callousness. I can’t speak for Rosemarie (and she shouldn’t feel compelled to comment on my next point at this juncture), but I am anything but an advocate of addressing int’l and/or domestic problems through peaceful means exclusively.  I am all for the necessary violent confrontation that must take place with the likes of Kerry/Bush & Co.  And..until that actually gets off the ground..I am all for “forcing” The Powers into engaging Nader in debate on certain crucial points.  Support of Nader, for me, has more to do with using him as a point of departure for discussion of certain issues.  The real task ahead is not to get Nader elected...as he would obviously not be allowed to work much magic...as things are presently constituted...even if in the White House.  The real task is undermining the basic structure of this country, its very foundations.  The public school system and the “freedom” of the media which dominate our daily lives only serve to reinforce the ignorance displayed in Paul’s rant.  And that’s just for starters.  I recommend that Paul --and those who agree with him-- request a copy of Mickey Z’s book (SAVING PRIVATE POWER)...which I’ll send you for free.  Ditto for Mark Zepezauer’s TAKE THE RICH OFF WELFARE.  Best, Richard

    Posted by UnOrzeasized Ox from  on  08/31  at  10:57 AM

  26. That’s your relationship to Mickey Z and Mark Zepezauer? “In China you would be writing on prison walls. So, why don’t you stop name dropping the names of (unknown) authors and start making some sense.” Out of my mind.  Surely my insantity is contributed to by such a statement about Mickey Z and Mark Zepezauer.  I delineated my relationship to Ralph Nader quite clearly in my previous entry, and my qualified support of him has zero to do with what you’re suggesting.  I would also like to underscore that your loose use of the word “assassination” has zero to do with what I label as necessary violent confrontation with the powers that be. I am disappointed that more of the Press Action community is not jumping in here to at least underscore, for Paul, how off the mark he is. As Russell Means points out in his intro to Ward Churchill’s A LITTLE MATTER OF GENOCIDE (I trust that those two authors are not dismissed as lightly as the other two), all of our life we have had to listen to rhetoric about the U.S. being a model of freedom and democracy, the most uniquely enlightened and humanitarian country in history, a “nation of laws” which, unlike others, has never pursued policies of conquest and aggression.  Leaving aside the obvious points which could be raised to disprove it by Blacks and Chicanos and Asian immigrants...Mexicans,Hawaiians Filipinos, Marshall Islanders and so so many others...including Iraqis..."there’s a little matter of genocide that’s got to taken into account right here at home.” It is genocide which was inflicted on the inhabitants of Turtle Island...and which is still going on...that I speak of...and it’s not the only example that could be cited.  However, against Indians, as Russell points out, there’s not a law the U.S. hasn’t broken, not a Crime Against Humanity it hasn’t committed, and...it’s still going on...with Paul’s support and ignorance.  No, I don’t live in China...and would not.  I live where...up to this moment...I can speak out like this.  And unlike Paul, I’m taking advantage of the op, not compounding ignorance w ignorance. Blessings to your “sanity,” ROX

    Posted by ROX HARD from  on  08/31  at  02:20 PM

  27. Dear Changeling (I see you are now ROX HARD),
    Perhaps you ought to Rock a little less and study world history a little more. First, I am happy you concede that you live in a free country, where this forum is available for you and me to disagree without resorting to violence. So the question becomes why destroy this blessing. Why do you see your task as this: (direct quote) the “real task is undermining the basic structure of this country, its very foundations”? Second, it is absolutely true that many shackled peoples over the last two hundred years looked to the U.S. (and less so to the French Revolution) as a beacon of freedom and an imperfect model for democracy and liberty. I was born and lived for over a decade in a Communist country where exercising the freedom of speech (even among family members) was an almost sure way of finding yourself “disappeared” (as in “Brave New World” or “1984” - books actually worth reading). So, I’m not surprised that almost one million Iraqis are deemed to have been killed by Saddam’s regime. But, that seems to not bother you one bit. You harp about the destruction of native populations on the continent 200+ years ago as if people don’t know the atrocities or children are not taught about them in school. Have you not taken any high school history courses? It saddens everyone. But, what are you doing preaching armed resistence today? That’s ludicrous! So, you have your pet project: Turtle Island. Why don’t you learn how to write better, land a job with a major newspaper, and expose the problem, as the NY Times has done with Darfur, causing political action to be taken. And, please refrain from trying to align the experiences of immigrants in the U.S. with your militant brand of ignorant non-political theory. Most immigrants’ stories are those of success. Most immigrants appreciate the gift that is the United States. Most immigrants don’t Rock Hard, but work hard and are thankful for the opportunity that this land of freedom has offered them. No one denies there have been serious problems in U.S. history (Native decimation, Japanese internment, the current prejudice against Arab-Americans) but again, where is the PERSPECTIVE? Do you read much beyond Mickey Mouse and Mark Zepezauer?

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  03:14 PM

  28. I’ve taught “high school history courses,” Paul. Sorry.  For you to say the following:  “I’m not surprised that almost one million Iraqis are deemed to have been killed by Saddam’s regime. But, that seems to not bother you one bit” betrays the fact that you didn’t read what I wrote in the previous entry to you (just a few minutes ago) carefully. And as per Dr. James Loewen (a Professor Emeritus of Univ. of Vermont ...who wrote LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME AND LIES ACROSS AMERICA)..."NO"...the atrocities are not “taught” in the schools.  Ward Churchill’s writings and many others will confirm the same thing, but Loewen attacks the issue from the perspective of actual textbooks which are used...in great detail.  The last third of your entry above is very...weak, to be kind. To cite one of the many problems with your own wording: “No one denies there have been serious problems in U.S. history (Native decimation,...” shows that you think of “the problems” as being in the...past.  They are not.  And one of the reasons that I don’t write for newspapers (any longer) is that they, generally, draw the same basic parameters that you do, working from the same sad premises.  “Armed resistance” is a label that serves as a red herring for you in avoiding what I have been submitting for everyone’s consideration.  To wit, that there are many other forms of violence that can be used to undermine this “heavenly” status quo...which do not require arms, and certainly do not call for “armed resistance” following past paradigms.  Good fortune, Richard Martin Oxman

    Posted by Richard Martin Oxman from  on  08/31  at  03:26 PM

  29. Oh Jesus,

    Rox Hard’s is not talking about Fiji, but calls North America Turtle Island. Get a life! I see your political theory all coming together now. Thank Allah you are quite alone my friend. I don’t know if you are Native American, but I seriously doubt any sane Native American would join in your decidedly violent ideology. I further doubt that Native Americans see any link between the Trail of Tears and assassinating the candidates for President. They are sort of “innocent civilians” as far as that goes, unless you think they should be punished for the sins of their fathers (to use an expression), if their ancestors sinned at all.  Cheers Richard!

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  03:33 PM

  30. Glad to see you are no longer Rocking Hard, Richard. So, I’m supposed to be impressed by some God, some guy at University of Vermont that could not land a job at University of Chicago to write the textbooks himself, who had to write something to keep his job at a third tier school? Give me a break. From 7th through 12th grade I read a million accounts and saw a thousand maps of the Trail of Tears. At college, and then in law school I did not find a person that was unaware of the hardships suffered by immigrants, by slaves, by indentured servants, by Japanese Americans in WWII. It seems to me you are propounding the myth that Americans are ignorant. Perhaps you are staking your identity on being some sort of enlightened recluse reading some God from Vermont when you just could not cut it in the newspaper business and/or your high school students concluded you were a loser. I wish you luck in finding another job, one that hopefully keeps you off the violent path. Regards, Paul.

    Posted by Paul Orzea from  on  08/31  at  04:00 PM

  31. My job these days is, in part, to put people like you...to bed. No words can possibly...adequately...address what you’ve offered up.  Best, Richard

    Posted by Nanny Ox from  on  08/31  at  04:38 PM

  32. Perhaps you can do that job in a way that won’t make people automatically think “Press Action forum” = dominated by a guy who even if his ideas are absolutely right on, can’t shake the “maximum leader” habit....

    Paul had some decent things to say, despite his scandalous and misinformed backing of the destruction of the once great state of Yugoslavia (Even Wesley Clark acknowledged that NATO’s bombs exarcerbated any tensions between Serbs and Kosovars - and now Kosovars are doing their own ethnic cleansing of Jews, Roma and Serbs.  I would hate to think that liberals actually think that Kosovo was OK and Iraq was not....if anything the ongoing war against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, the paying off of ethnic groups by different states - was far worse than the Iraq war, not neccesarily in terms of numbers, but, in terms of reality - Saddam Hussein was far worse than Slobodan Milosevic.)

    I agree that there can be wars fought by International Police and Military forces, under some form of global governance.  Richard Falk, among others, have good ideas on this topic.  But the US doesn’t have a leg to stand on in terms of so-called “Humanitarian Intervention.”

    And back to Ox - e-mail Paul, get his addy and send him Mickey’s book...and understand that while I don’t argue it here anymore, I don’t have a dissimilar perspective regarding Nader.  I don’t know much about Cobb but he seems a stinker and I don’t know about the SEP’s candidate....I would if I was American write in my name or not vote at all.  I’d like to see Bush lose, but I’d like to see Kerry lose too......

    To the extent that “conjunctures” dictate the situation and the state is becoming more powerful than the singularity or figurehead in power, then the best thing to do would be to conduct Gramscian struggles within the state.  I am heartened to see such resistance from unlikely quarters like the CIA and various generals....A whole host of opportunities are arising.

    Posted by j cummings from  on  08/31  at  11:11 PM

  33. Voting for Nader means voting for Bush, the worst environmental president in American history.  the article is right in saying that “3 or 4 percent” are just enough to change the election. Yes, those “3 or 4 percent” will ruin our nation’s future.  If you want your vote to count, vote for a candidate that could take Bush out of office.  No more lies or pre-emptive wars.  Vote for Kerry.

    Posted by Molly Bales from  on  09/30  at  06:55 PM

  34. The Democratic Platform Committee leaders and Kerry aides have refused to accept language in the Platform that would have labeled the invasion of Iraq “a mistake”. This was predictable. Both Kerry and Edwards voted for the War. The consistency and honesty of their pro-war stance is to be admired; but, this DNC Platform now creates a conundrum for the anti-war groups that were lured into supporting the Democratic nominees.

    Will the anti-war groups follow their Democratic Party leaders or will they follow their consciences ? There are 13,000 reasons, all buried in Iraq, why many of them will not vote for the Democratic or Republican nominees.

    The DNC handed Ralph Nader a big win. Nader is now the only progressive anti-war candidate. For those who know that this War was a mistake, the choice to vote for Nader in November will be an easy one.

    PEACE, rosemarie

    Posted by Rosemarie Jackowski from  on  09/30  at  08:56 PM

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