Tuesday, May 04, 2004

Prisoners' Dilemma

By Mickey Z.

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Posted 05/04 | Add a Comment

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  1. It’s interesting Bush claims torture “doesn’t reflect the values of our country,” as if dropping cluster bombs, firing cruise missiles, and, to date, killing 10,000 Iraqis is not toture.

    If I was a news editor at the New York Times, I would have followed the above Bush quote with mention of his mockery of Karla Faye Tucker, who Bush executed in Texas, along with 152 other hapless souls.

    Of course, I’d be fired on the spot.

    If people believe this man, if they believe “we” don’t torture, then they deserve what’s coming to them, unfortunately: decades of torture, inflicted on the third world by dehumanized draftees (note the SS now wants both women and men up to the draft age of 34).

    Of course, Kerry will not be much better, maybe worse. At least he has first-hand knowledge of how to torture, burn villages, and shoot people.

    Consider it a required skillset for the job.

    Posted by Kurt from  on  05/04  at  10:31 AM

  2. A lot of the torture stories seem just so superfluous when looked at from the point of view of rationality - it seems obviously to go beyond interrogation.  As well, I don’t think that this is specifically a whole bunch of soldiers and spooks having fun.  Rather, this reminds me of the sorts of things alleged to have taken place as an adjunct of some sort of Post MKultra psycho-war program. 

    Also - Mickey, I recieved your book today from Richard Oxman, and have not yet started reading it - but I have to comment on the design - it is fantastic, on ever level down to the typeset.  Will send more comments to you soon...looks quite eye opening.

    JLC

    Posted by J Cummings from  on  05/04  at  01:49 PM

  3. Thanks, J. I appreciate your support.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  05/04  at  04:08 PM

  4. Mickey,

    another great article and thanks for the quote by Voltaire!  Voltaire has been one of my favourite writers for quite a while, and you are becoming one.

    Keep it up,
    Helga

    Posted by Helga Fremlin from  on  05/04  at  06:22 PM

  5. Thanks for the kind words, Helga.

    ---
    A regular reader contacted me to share his thoughts on this article and I wanted to offer an excerpt of his comments that particularly struck me as important:

    “I am afraid (the torture scandal) could, in many people’s minds, normalize, ‘regular war’ as if just bombing, shooting, suffering, dying, and all the trauma is okay. It further takes us away from point A: we should not be at war.”

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  05/04  at  08:23 PM

  6. I’m a slow reader.  I haven’t even had time to go through all of this (leisurely enough to take in all the niceties), but what I have skimmed...makes me very thankful that Mick has addressed this FACT.  I hope that all readers will spread the word that Mickey’s putting on the table for us here.  Best, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  05/04  at  10:59 PM

  7. It also takes away from the fact that all that other stuff is even worse than what happened in that prison, as awful as that was.  It seems like in wars the government always acknowledges token atrocities like this one (and in turn treats them as aberrations), which end up getting all the attention while the greater slaughter is ignored.

    Like with the My Lai Massacre.  Compared to the other atrocities committed in the Vietnam War, My Lai was relatively small and not by any means unique, but it’s the only atrocity committed by the U.S. that is regularly mentioned in history textbooks.

    Compared to say, the bombing of that Baghdad marketplace about a year ago that killed over 60 people, this is a pretty minor atrocity.  People are acting like these photos have special significance because of the international outrage they are provoking, but there has been outrage all along over the photos of dead and maimed people.

    Of course it’s newsworthy and heads should roll up the chain of command for it (preferably ALL the way up the chain of command), but you have to wonder why these photos are getting so much air time when they are no less shocking than say, this one:
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/0328-06.jpg

    Maybe it’s because the naked people and the methods of humiliation are so unique (or the images of them are, anyway).  I guess during war time pictures of dying children are just too trite to be given air time.

    Posted by Justin Felux from  on  05/05  at  06:04 AM

  8. Any student of history, indeed, any thinking person will realize wartime atrocities are never isolated incidents, they are and always have been, part and parcel of every war machine ever unleashed.  Thanks Mickey, for telling it like it is - it’s time to shine the spotlight on the stuff hidden in the shadows.

    Posted by Joanne Giza from  on  05/05  at  02:04 PM

  9. And thanks for sharing a regular reader’s thoughts with us, especially with regard to Point A, Mickey:  “WE SHOULD NOT BE AT WAR” (and Australia but then our PM Howard does whatever GWB tells him to - actually he is due in DC next week),

    Helga

    Posted by Helga Fremlin from  on  05/06  at  05:40 PM

  10. I’m not sure if I had been thunking it or if Mickey only revealed it to me, but it is entirely true.  All this emphasis on the torture and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners obscures the fact that the war, invasion, and occupation were/are constant forms of torture more widespread to an aggravated degree.  One more American diversion…

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from  on  05/07  at  12:51 PM
    11. Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. {/if}

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