Monday, February 21, 2005

Lies, Disinformation, the Media and What Is the Truth Exactly?

By Mom Anonymous

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Posted 02/21 | Add a Comment

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  1. The most significant socio-political changes in our country were brought about by one principle methodology.  A methodology that succeeded where others (ie. acts of violence, public speaking, writing books, etc.) failed.

    I’m speaking, of course, about nonviolent acts of civil disobedience (thank you, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Alice Paul, et al).

    No other methodology has the track record of success, in the anals of socio-political change, that nonviolent civil disobedience does.

    We know what works.  We only need to look at history to be reminded of it.  We know what works. 
    We only need to decide how badly we want it.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  02/21  at  09:14 PM

  2. P.S.  Does anyone find it a bit ironic… that we are now being reminded of the value of nonviolent civil disobedience… by, of all people, soldiers?  http://www.couragetorefuse.org/English/default.asp

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  02/21  at  10:52 PM

  3. NR,
    I don’t find it odd that soldiers would be sick of violence and some would end up taking a non violent stance.Actually it seems pretty reasonable,given the hell that is war.

    Non violence as a movement has a history,marked with many famous and not so famous names.I also believe protests and civil disobedience has it’s place among the MANY approaches people can take.

    The ONLY problem I have with non violence as a moral principle or way of doing things is that it’s not going to work against those who have no qualms about using violence to stop the non violence.Ask an American Indian what happened to their people when they were either unarmed or had less firepower than those who were looking to"relocate"them.Lakota,Cheyenne,Apache,Tolowa,Osage,Iroquois,Shawnee,Navajo,the list is hundreds of names long.

    I know this is a tough thing to get around.People who are basically kind and good at their core don’t relish violence,life is precious to them.However,those in power see that as weak,not unlike a schoolyard bully who picks on the shy,sensitive kid who they know won’t fight back.

    Armed resistance has a place in history too,perhaps not as stand up “moral"or heroic as those of their non violent counterparts(in the view of many),but it’s there.Neither approach has solved as much as it intended.

    Armed resistance isn’t the same as all out anarchy and chaos either.Being mindless and stupid however you choose to fight back is a waste of energy and time anyway.Just like boycotting a major corporation won’t really stop what they do in the overwhelming majority of cases.Like signing petitions hasn’t secured the release of Leonard Peltier,even though a significant number of people have done that in support of his release.

    I wish I had a good across the board answer here,I really do.It would be nice to have some sort of formula to go by.But we face things no other generation before us has,and I think maybe,supporting ALL the work being done,whether we totally agree with it or not could be a place to begin.Especially when that work has goals that coincide or overlap.

    Posted by Mom Anonymous from GA,USA  on  02/22  at  07:10 AM

  4. Mom Anonymous,

    Looks like you may spark up a hot topic here. About a dozen or so years back a shaman from Mexico told me, ‘All change is violent.’ In your experience, is this a common indigenous perspective? I plead ignorance.

    Nader Rider,

    I like your affirmation about change brought about through nonviolent civil disobedience and its proven effectiveness in the U.S.:

    ‘We only need to decide how badly we want it.’

    And offer a lengthy, mildly relevant and admittedly visionary quote:

    ‘Consider for a moment what our planet is and what it might be. At present, for most, there is toil and hunger, constant danger, more hatred than love. There could be a happy world, where co-operation was more in evidence than competition, and monotonous work is done by machines, where what is lovely in nature is not destroyed to make room for hideous machines whose sole business is to kill, and where to promote joy is more respected than to produce mountains of corpses. Do not say this is impossible: it is not. It waits only for men TO DESIRE IT MORE than the infliction of torture.

    There is an artist imprisoned in each one of us. Let him loose to spread joy everywhere.’

    --Bertrand Russell

    (The capitalized emphasis is mine and I’d like to acknowledge Mom’s expressed feminism and note that Russell almost always used the language of Mankind, men, or Man.)

    Posted by Theo from Greece  on  02/22  at  08:34 AM

  5. Theo,
    I can’t really claim to be an expert here,it depends on which Indian you ask.There seems to be a divide between the traditionalists and the more"progressive"Indians,those more assimilated into the dominant culture.

    I’ve gone back and forth in my own views on this over the years,looking at the work of Dr King for example,shows us that non violence is a worthy goal,and one certainly worth supporting.However,I also think that non violence as a hard line limits options far too much.I personally abhor violence,and don’t advocate it UNLESS it’s in defense of what or who I love.If someone broke into my house with a gun,talking nicely to him most likely isn’t going to change his intent.It could,but the odds are it wouldn’t.Fighting back with my words,or even a fist is no match for a gun wielded by someone who has no problem using it.

    I think,if you look at some of the writing of the more traditionally minded American Indians,there’s an acknowledgement that armed resistance is something that’s not immediately dismissed as being immoral or wrong.This isn’t just in the US,indigenous peoples in South America have at times taken up arms(even when they have no prior history of doing so)in defense of their land,their way of life and their people.That’s not something done lightly without consideration of consequences most of the time.Maybe it boils down to how in-your-face the actual threat is,I mean,I,as a white woman have not had to face down being outgunned and outmanned on a personal level.Not many of the majority in the US have had that dilemma right on their doorstep.

    Now we have DU to contend with,and one point I tried to make here is that alot of study and some discussions and actions are being done,but it’s not stopping the usage or manufacture of it into tools of war.There comes a point,I think at least,where you have enough evidence to move on past that.Same goes with liars,how many lies do you have to have shown to you before you realize that someone will indeed look right at you and lie without flinching?Which lie is big enough to inspire something different than the usual routes?Once the truth is exposed,then what?That’s where we as a nation get hung up in alot of debates and so on.

    Posted by Mom Anonymous from GA,USA  on  02/22  at  09:45 AM

  6. I like that your intiials come out to MA, Mom Anonymous.  How appropriate.

    “taking a non violent stance”... “non violence as a movement”... “the only problem I have with non violence as a moral principle or way of doing things”.

    Nonviolence as a stance, movement, or moral principle is one thing, MA; but, nonviolent civil disobedience is quite another.  One may be passive and accepting, but the other is certainly not.

    Not knowing the history of American indigenous people as well as you do, do they have a history of performing nonviolent acts of civil disobedience (versus simply being nonviolent or, at the rarest moments, violent)?

    I think its important to maintain the distinction between simply being nonviolent (which can be a passive act) and being nonviolently civil disobedient (which is anything but a passive act).

    “Human history begins with man’s act of disobedience which is at the very same time the beginning of his freedom and development of his reason.” -Erich Fromm, Psychoanalysis and Religion

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  02/22  at  11:06 AM

  7. Good questions NR,great in fact.You make important distinctions here too.
    (understand here as far as I am concerned,my particular amount of knowledge on this,American Indian struggles,religion and worldview is the result of independant study,on my own,and it by NO means complete,you really could devote a lifetime to just this avenue of learning)

    In recent history alot of acts of civil disobedience have been “instigated"by Indian peoples.For example,AIM and it’s supporters, back in the 70’s took over the BIA building in DC,they occupied it in protest,but initially the intent was to go there to be heard about legitimate concerns.When they were dismissed,pretty much like annoying children,then the occupation of the building came next,it wasn’t planned(according to accounts of those who were there)it just evolved out of the circumstances.They took over the building for a week,the"siege"ended peacefully for the most part.What’s interesting though is the response of those in power,who immediately responded with law enforcement and military back up when there was no initial threat of violence on behalf of the Indians that were there.(for a pretty good overview of that time and some of what went on,Mary Crow Dog’s book Lakota Woman is a fast and easy read,as well as giving us a glimpse into Indian beliefs and worldview)There are even more current struggles in the Navajo nations regarding mining.

    I mention Indian struggles here,a)because I have a pretty decent understanding from lots of research over the course of most of the last decade and b)the information is fairly easy to come by if you begin looking for it.It also should be noted that overall,in looking at various issues facing American Indians,there’s a whole range of responses,civil disobedience,legal avenues,writing and speaking out,protesting,armed resistance,even caving in and following the rules.The point is,within these various nations of peoples,all possibilities are considered.It’s fairly wise I think to keep doors open,even if it’s not something we would personally do.

    Another author I like is Derrick Jensen,and I’ll give him all the credit for helping me understand this.In essence one point(of many)he makes is that the beauty part of the world being a mess is that there’s ALOT of work to be done.And as such,there’s a whole vast and varied menu of things one can choose to do.AND,if we really DO want things to be better or different,then we need to begin supporting one another as we do those things.In other words,those feeding hungry people can be supportive of those fighting for land rights,and those people can be supportive of those who choose to march in protest,who can in turn support those who take on big lumber companies,and on and on.I think American Indians can provide us with some really functional models(and lessons) to work from,if we investigate that route a little deeper.

    Posted by Mom Anonymous from GA,USA  on  02/22  at  12:10 PM

  8. Thanks for the response MA. Excuse me as I nip off and ponder that for a while.

    Posted by Theo from Greece  on  02/22  at  12:46 PM

  9. To clarify a little here....

    1)All one has to do is pick a spot on a world map,look at any remaining indigenous peoples who are still living there(those not assimilated into the more"modern"world)and you’ll most likely find some sort of struggle,related to social justice,land rights,poverty and hunger,etc,etc....It’s pretty much a constant and relentless process.In the case of North American Indians(and Canada’s natives have had the same issues to handle as those here in the US)this systematic process of what is a genocide didn’t stop with the expansion of Manifest Destiny in past history.It’s happening NOW,it’s just hidden away mostly on reservations.

    2)I also want to clarify this:I HATE separating"Indians"from myself,talking about"them"like they are some sort of attraction at a zoo I’m observing from the outside of the cage.It has a deep tone of racism to it that creeps me out.I have to think of another way of presenting this,and my american language is somewhat lacking,as well as my own learning process as a white suburbanite.Alot of unlearning to do on my part,still.One has to untangle all of that colonization to begin understanding the relevance of these struggles to themselves,to connect to the human beings involved in them,then you can understand why it matters so much.Once that process begins,you begin to feel it,but even then,you can’t KNOW it.I don’t presume to,I want to make that clear to anyone reading what I write.I just hope I can point some more people in the direction of the voices of those who are living it or did before.

    3)I’m moved to speak out some on the history and current events in"Indian Country"because there’s a woeful lack of any sort of knowledge at ALL amongst middle/average america about what’s happening(and did actually happen) on their own doorstep.Even a cursory glance at a public school text of any sort shows barely a passing mention of the more famous massacres(Wounded Knee,Trail of Tears,et al),no mention of the current devastation and struggles within the reservation system,the horrendous racism in the surrounding white communities,the daily brutality,the outright theft of land and resources,national sacrifice areas.Nothing.Lots of nice pics of the presidents and founding fathers though.It’s just wrong,and few people outside those directly effected give a rat’s ass.It’s not all bad news here,btw,but the odds for more good news developing are far more difficult than anything I or my neighbors have ever faced.

    Posted by Mom Anonymous from GA,USA  on  02/23  at  08:47 AM
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