Monday, January 10, 2005

Exposing the Lies of Our Times: An Interview with Mickey Z.

By Mark Hand

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Posted 01/10 | Add a Comment

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  1. It’s good to see Mickey Z stretch out on the subject of activism. He can be quite eloquent: “A delicate balance of patience and adventure must be found before a system of repression can be dismantled.” Even if you think you know American history, read Saving Private Power. It’s one of those books where every page leaves you shaking your head, going, Wow, I never knew that before. Then go to your public library and stand in front of say, the World War II section. What you learn in SPP pulls the rug out from under practically every mainstream history book about war. My personal interpretation, in part, of SPP is that WWII, for instance, comes to seem not a war between freedom and fascism, but an attempt by capitalism to corral elements of corporatism that have gotten out of hand. Both stand against their real “enemy”—communism. (Correct me if I’m wrong, Mickey.)

    Posted by Russ Wellen from Sleepy Hollow, New York  on  01/10  at  04:02 PM

  2. Indeed many historians of fascism have made that same point - and even some union leaders
    9see Chomsky - Detterring Democacracy - in the thirties admired Mussolini.  I second the assessment of SPP.  It is beautifully written and very very important.

    Posted by j cummings from Canada  on  01/10  at  06:28 PM

  3. “Even in the face of urgent issues, dissent is a marathon...not a sprint.” (MZ)

    I just saw “Iron Jawed Angels” for the third time.  And the above sentiment was exactly the kind of message that the National American Woman Suffrage Association conveyed to Alice Paul and her organization, the National Woman’s Party. 

    Fortunately, Ms. Paul didn’t buy into it and women received the right to vote sooner than if they had proceeded at a marathon pace.

    Whether dissent is a sprint or a marathon… depends on the price that you are willing to pay for your dissent.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/10  at  09:09 PM

  4. And were Alice Paul alive today, I think she would’ve agreed with Decimus Junius Juvenalis, who once said:

    “Dare to do things worthy of imprisonment, if you mean to be of consequence.”

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/10  at  09:25 PM

  5. Some quick replies:

    Russ, you’re right about the thesis of SPP but as Jordy explains, I’m hardly the first person to propose this idea. Either way, I appreciate the kind words from you and Jordy (and thanks, Jordy for reposting links to my work so often on your site).

    NR, I believe you are doing me an injustice by cherry picking one quote. Obviously, tactics of dissent vary widely from case to case...but the context of my quote related to the ABB agenda and the 2008 election. It was not a grand statement about “the price that you are willing to pay for your dissent.”

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  01/10  at  09:28 PM

  6. It was not my intent to do you or the interviewer any injustice by my comments.  I’m sorry that you took it that way.

    I reread the context of the quote that I commented on and observed, again, that it was a reply to the interviewer’s question about the future, not about something that occurred in the past.  And so I took the quote in that context.

    That is why I said that dissent’s finish line will be determined by the price that you are willing pay for your dissent.  Talk about the need for change and show up at a few protests, and the finish line will certainly be a marathon away.  Be willing to go to jail for it, on the other hand, and you may have the possibility of running a 10K.
    In large enough numbers, of course.

    Again, it was not my intent to do anyone an injustice.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/10  at  09:45 PM

  7. Save this ambiguous comment: “Finally, about 2008, it’s tough to say who will do what but if the Democrats trot out Hillary and Obama, they will likely keep most of the pseudo-lefties in the corral,” which I regretfully didn’t understand, exceptionally astute commentary.  Thanks Mickey (and Mark!).

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from Chicago  on  01/10  at  10:27 PM

  8. The reader above who wrote, “Whether dissent is a sprint or a marathon depends on the price that you are willing to pay for your dissent,” is aware, I assume, that if you head out of the starting blocks at a sprinter’s pace all the time you will burn out quickly and lose all value down the road. Obviously, we should be participating in both sprints and marathons on all issues, as long as the sprints do not drain our energy and usefulness from attempting to successfully navigate the marathons. The reader above apparently has witnessed the fruits of spending time in prison for his or her actions based on the comment: “Be willing to go to jail for it, on the other hand, and you may have the possibility of running a 10K.” Both the sprinters and the marathoners will run the risk of going to prison based on their actions against the state. The reality, of course, is that real change in our society won’t occur without a large group of people who are willing to endure the struggle of the marathon.

    Posted by Mark Hand from  on  01/11  at  10:01 AM

  9. Mickey is one of my favorite commentator on the web.  I Never miss one article by him,
    He can write with passionate righteous anger of Pilger and chomsky and a sense of humour which I really cherish,
    One of the best article he wrote was on bush’s state of the union speech. It was simply superb.
    He is very eclectic, the guy seems to read a lot , on so many different subjects.
    I love your work, Mickey, I wish i could meet you,

    Posted by Ajit Hegde from India  on  01/11  at  10:39 AM

  10. Re. Mark’s comments above, it was my intention to simply point out that different forms of dissent create different results wihin different time frames.

    Many Americans are under the impression that you can effect significant socio-political change through the electoral process.  I characterize this as marathon running in the race for change.

    A cursory review of our country’s short history reveals something to the contrary, however: non-violent civil disobedience (a 10K run, to use the same metaphor) has created more significant socio-political changes (i.e. equal rights for women and different races) than the ballot box has… as Alice Paul, Rosa Parks, and Martin Luther King (MLK) all attest to.

    And since we will be formally remembering MLK very shortly, his words bear extra significance:

    “Non-violence will be effective, but not until it has achieved the massive dimensions, the disciplined planning and the intense commitment of a sustained, direct action movement of civil dis obedience on the national scale.”

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/11  at  11:20 AM

  11. Mickey, I thank you for doing the same with my writing....I often find a piece of mine on a third site that was found on your blog...this is always wonderful.  And on your point about Americans and violence, I think its actually a good thing - and makes the idea of a constitutional convention even more relevent.  Pure Polemics, after some problems with its server, is back up.  An article about Armstrong Williams and Judy Miller (who’s more guilty) will be sent to PA later today/tomorrow.

    Posted by j cummings from Canada  on  01/11  at  12:16 PM

  12. Mickey Z. is an annoying self-promoter and nothing in his writings is original at all.

    Posted by Ludwig Von Gergen from  on  01/11  at  02:00 PM

  13. There is a saying in zen buddhism, LVG, which says, “To see the newness or freshness of something, see with new or fresh eyes.” Have you tried looking at MZ’s ideas through a new set of peepers?  And, personally, I believe that we shortchange a constructive evaluation of a man’s ideas...when we identify him with our opinions of those ideas.  We’re much too willing to create identities for others, I think, from the opinions that we have of their handiwork/craftsmanship.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/11  at  02:51 PM

  14. Ludwig

    I wonder if you might give specifics?

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from Chicago  on  01/11  at  04:11 PM

  15. ...ah, the discreet resistance of the bourgeoisie; ‘tell ya what, i’ll front the ticket to send m.z. to Iraq to explain his form of resistance to a mother who’s child has been killed by the amerinazi stormtroopers...Oops, i forgot, you don’t wanna be a martyr.

    Posted by zek gulag from laughing my ass off...  on  01/11  at  07:51 PM

  16. ah, the discreet resistance of the bourgeoisie; ‘tell ya what, i’ll front the ticket to send m.z. to Iraq to explain his form of resistance to a mother who’s child has been killed by the amerinazi stormtroopers...Oops, i forgot, you don’t wanna be a martyr.

    A reluctance to prescribe for others what you’re unwilling to commit to yourself is an admirable qaulity. A careful avoidance of cheap, sophomoric emotional gambits and gratuitous insults makes it even better.

    Posted by Harry from  on  01/15  at  08:02 AM

  17. “Nonviolence (nonviolent civil disobedience) is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.” (Mohandas K. Gandhi)

    “Gandhi was inevitable. If humanity is to progress, Gandhi is inescapable. He lived, thought and acted, inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward a world of peace and harmony. We may ignore Gandhi at our own risk.” (Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.)

    On this day when others join me in remenbering Dr. King, I am reminded of his core belief was that we have a moral and civic duty to nonviolently resist and disobey social injustice.

    And I wonder how far we have progressed, if at all, in exercising that moral imperative.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/17  at  02:14 AM

  18. I am agnostic over the violence/anti-violence debates - completely either/or without one foot in any camp.  On one hand, nonviolent struggle is preferrable, but not to defeat and moral high ground… Any time nonviolent struggle has worked, many Marxists and others have pointed out that it was against the backdrop of international geo-political, anti-colonial and class struggle.  IE Britain allowed nonviolence to work because they preferred the Congress Party to more violent anarchist and communist anti-coloinalists in India.  Congress was able to achieve hegemony because Britain preferred it, and Britain preferrd it for a reason.  Same goes with King.  Without the international backdrop of people of color gaining their rights often violently, the nonviolent approach in a country known for racism would not have worked.  Further, as Cockburn quotes King at a meeting with followers who booed him “I realize why they boo me, we told them it could be done here, but it can’t” meaning non violently (that was a paraphrase.) If he didn’t move to less nonviolent positions towards the end of his life, MLK certainly became more revolutionary.  As Cockburn says, in a different context, King may have had a dream, but communists who were anything but nonviolent Christians, helped him in the clutch.

    Posted by j cummings from Canada  on  01/17  at  06:47 PM

  19. Thoreau, Ghandi, and Dr. King were not advocates of nonviolent struggle.  They were specific advocates and practitioners of nonviolent acts of civil disobedience.  The two are not exactly the same.  A writer, who writes books about the lies of authorotarian powers, certainly participates in a nonviolent struggle; but, he is not a participant in nonviolent civil disobedience.  We have many nonviolent strugglers these days, and far fewer practitioners of nonviolent civil disobedience...which, Thoreau, Ghandi, and Dr. King were.  If Dr. King felt that he could’ve effected change by writing a book, I’m sure that he would’ve preferred the pen to the walls of a Birmingham jail.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  01/17  at  11:31 PM
    20. Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. {/if}

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