Friday, November 12, 2004

Rumor Club: (Spread the Word...)

By Mickey Z.

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  1. Excellent!! I love it.

    Look at my non political website experimenting with reality.  We are working on another project to unite people based on fiction.  But actually, if something is interpreted as being “real”, it is real.

    Posted by elches1917 from  on  11/12  at  01:12 PM

  2. I just got finished praising elches1917 (in gen’l) in a comment attached to my Never-Never Land piece, but I must be critical on a specific point here...not only of his entry, but of Mick’s article. Of course, perceived reality is what’s real in the sense delineated. Bravo. Plus...something CAN be done using such as a point of departure.  However, it is extremely limited (the potential)...it seems to me...considering, for example, that readers here have not (in very significant #s) even “explored” the possibilities of much firmer, detailed plans for action such as what’s been offered up for disc. in The Plan...repeatedly.  Obviously, you’ll need much greater #s for what you’re proposing.  In that light (at the very least), this article seems to be proposing moving from a FIGHT club to a RUMOR club, an push to avoid confrontation by dreaming about the theoretical possibilities of unifying around a very safe stance/action.  One that --to be effective-- would eventually have to culminate in some kind of confrontation. To use a Fortune Cookie as a model for comment, Rumors Are Easy, Only Fight Costs Something ("From Life is free. Only living costs money").

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/12  at  01:28 PM

  3. Seems like you are on to something here.

    Posted by kim from  on  11/12  at  02:14 PM

  4. Can you be more specific, Kim?

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/12  at  02:17 PM

  5. I respectfully, sort of, disagree.  If this “rumor plan” was done on the internet, it would ultimately decrease the power of the internet and therefore by comparison, increase the power of the mainstream media.  I like the plan, if it somehow could be limited to mainstream media.

    Posted by rosemarie jackowski from  on  11/12  at  03:04 PM

  6. Sorry, I was being facetious.

    Posted by kim from  on  11/12  at  03:15 PM

  7. One of the most fundamental questions not being addressed in this Piece of Ambition is...where the huge #s come from necessary to implement anything?  If readers haven’t learned how very few individuals --needing to crawl out of their corner to rally around anything-- there are interested in solidarity-building exercises...what have they learned from the back and forth here?  And you can forget the specific of PA. There are loads of examples all along the spectrum from “Million Person This or That” disappointments to “Internet This or That” which have culminated in stuff far from the pitch pitched here.  The reference to Leno in the article is very sad for me personally, as sincere full-time readers here should know...touches upon something into which an enormous amount of work has been invested...only to receive quite the lesson...respecting #s. Any “disappointment” is fine, but we should all be learning from one another’s investments. How is this not a frivolous suggestion, this proposal for rallying unrallyable around rumors?  And please don’t accuse me of Sour Grapes...as I have NOT given up on The Plan...nor have I given up on other proposals which have a well-thought-out foundation.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/12  at  03:16 PM

  8. Oxy, you are to be commended for not giving up. I hope that none of us give up because perhaps only by reaching a critical momentum in terms of numbers will we be able to achieve “our” progressive aims.

    As for “rallying unrallyable around rumors,” I take it that Mickey wrote this tongue-in-cheek. Progressive tactics should, as much as possible, be principled. Otherwise “we” are in danger of becoming like the capitalists.

    In solidarity.

    Posted by kim from  on  11/12  at  03:48 PM

  9. First of all, I agree that Mickey Z wrote the article without total seriousness.  But he does touch upon some actual techniques used by the main stream media.  I thinkn one of the goals of this website is to share what we feel is reality regarding politics, so that people will understand that the main stream media is pro capitalist propaganda.

    Hopefully you saw my Oates & Hall movement website.  Obviously, it was done as a joke, but also as an experiment to see if people would take it seriously.  I know it sounds crazy, but we have to treat life existentially sometimes.  I don’t totally believe that “if something is interpreted as being real, it is real.” I mean there are so many valid arguments against it, but I use the Santa Claus example to people that defend god.

    There’s a book written about him, songs, tales, location, etc.

    We have the bible, hymns, miracles, heaven, hell, north pole, here comes..., ect.

    And up until ages three or four people believe Santa is real, absolutely real.  If parents continued with the myth and didn’t admit Santa is fake, why wouldn’t everybody believe in Santa for the rest of their lives.  And why wouldn’t these people persecute skeptics and develop pseudoscientific studies to defend it? Why do people believe in god?

    I am writing some crazy stuff here, but I know people who believe that the Oates and Hall Movement is real and work with this fictional group.  All you have to do is start it and watch it grow.

    Finally, I have gone to Hall and Oates concerts promoting the idea fo reversing the band name.  I have very humorous video of it.

    Posted by elches1917 from  on  11/12  at  04:08 PM

  10. There are lots of jokes going around. Fun is always fun. Necessary and welcome...as far as it goes.  But...who exactly to people think they are teaching stuff about the media, etc. here with this readership?  You don’t think that something’s going to be spread that manifests into movement in solidarity...in time...do you? Based on what’s taught here. When I’m pontificating, etc. here...I’m, admittedly, hanging on a thread...but my aim is to reach people who claim that they already KNOW the things you’re talking about (i.e., with the media)...in the hopes that a few of you will be interested in DOING something about that stuff...not just be content w thrashing it all around in diff configurations...sometimes under the guise that we’re teaching the uninitiated...often enough...to make a diff. Tongue in cheek is diff than activist mouth up butt. Not too many people have pushed Mickey’s work on three continents like I have tried to do over almost a year now...but when so much talent and so much talk culminates in the kind of footage that was achieved on the French battlefields from those trenches (at times)...losing lives all the while...one must pause and criticize/provoke.  Silence here and/or trying to let everyone just do their thing is tantamount to supporting our genocide.  We must move more, more quickly.  And I don’t mean...onto another website to clog blog space.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/12  at  05:24 PM

  11. i quote: “Performance art as protest. Gossip as direct action”. that’s where the rub lies. as that has been done, i done seen that. huge demonstrations with flags, signs, coffins and what have you, perfect street performance art. i saw and was not convinced, walking along with the
    gay contingent on sixth avenue during the rnc, shouting resistance songs. all fodder for the media and easily contained, endless discussions about pro and con, arrests of the bicyclists, great theatre and courage of those penetrating the dumbass convention, itself theatre of the absurd and so on. “gossip as direct action”, aint that what we is doin’ here ? ‘political’ gossip, is kerry dumb or whishywhashy ? is bush criminal ? is the pope catholic ? repeating ourselves over and over again, getting our jollies from discussing our ‘radical’ thought ? come on kids, stop kidding yourself. talk is cheap and doin’ nuttin’ is compliance. think of collective guilt, the ‘ich habe es nicht gewusst’ (i din’t know) of the worst prospect for this society. wake up to reality, dare to do. start small by refusals of idiotic tasks or demands, be wise on your choices so that an arrest (which is entirely counter productive though it may look heroic) will not be possible (becuz when you is in the clinker whot cans you do?). every small effort of obstruction helps (read the new testament on that, it is full of good revolutionary advise). for richard:
    gui

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/12  at  06:14 PM

  12. To Gui...Not all arrests are counter-productive.  An arrest can be used to open up many forums which might not otherwise be possible. Also, an arrest is one of the purest forms of RESISTANCE. If large numbers of people were arrested, it would virtually shut down one branch of government.  I highly recommend it !

    Posted by rosemarie jackowski from  on  11/12  at  06:33 PM

  13. Oh ... it works just fine. For example, I had heard that Saddam Hussein had these weapon stocks ... all kinds of gruesome stuff ... I asked around how they knew that and all anyone seemed to say was ‘well, you know ...’

    Posted by Theo from  on  11/12  at  06:57 PM

  14. ah dear rosemary, lovely to hear from you. i see your point though i vigorously oppose it. you are correct that an arrest can open up many forums, but what then ? people that agree, agree anyways, people that dont agree will keep on not agreeing and so on and so forth. I personally feel rightly or wrongly that we need to move beyond theatre (that is why i wrote comment # 11) and i see an arrest as theatre, easily contained and not productive further than the arrest and the courtroom itself. we should have moved i feel beyond that, because this kind of pure resistance as you write has now been very cleverly coopted by the powers-that-be like was seen by the easy way the arrested were processed in new york during the rnc (in fact they succeeded in torturing the arrested a bit by keeping them in a filthy disused pier on the hudson). what consequences for resistance are left ? the legal hasslings ? no, that kind of protest has been dealt with since the 1960’s with the courtroom protest appearances of the black panthers etc (most of who have wisely moved on). this system cannot be moved by demonstrations or arrests in large numbers, and it surely would not shut down any branch of government as they are quite able to process the largest prison population percentage wise already in the world. in fact pbs recently showed the fine profits from a corporation that helps the government (not even wackenhut, but a lesser one) to process more people into sidelining them into a non-productive arrest and prison cell (a sort of siberia within). all best and thank you for your comment, gui rochat

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/12  at  07:10 PM

  15. No prob w acknowledging that the stuff Kathy Kelly, Derringer and Berrigan have pulled off has had an impact. But, again, that has to be the starting point.  As Gui points out, I believe, we’ve obviously got to rise above what Jeremy Scahill and the people from Berrigan’s old house are still doing today...whether or not they make their marks continuing on the same track.  There are many reasons for saying that. If you go to the San Diego Moon site listed in Mark’s sidebar here...you’ll find a few new articles not posted elsewhere by me touching on this stuff.  Certainly the one on Cynthia McKinney reminds me of January’s “statement” by her and Stan Goff and Michael Parenti that the #s of people Rosemarie would like to see putting the handcuffs will not materialize.  We put forth a proposal for massive, willing arrests at the nation’s post offices to do a head count PLUS...BUT...all of these people mentioned AND MANY OTHERS IN SANTA CRUZ refused to get behind it.  The prob was NOT the particulars.  Yes, cute, Theo; there are cute elements in the article too.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/12  at  09:19 PM

  16. In the spirit of the Situationists “demanding the impossible,” I applaud Mr. Oxman’s Leno/Letterman disruption plans and Mickey Z.’s Gossip Club idea. Confusing to me, however, was Mr. Oxman’s comment above, which definitely aroused my situationist senses but still left me baffled: “Tongue in cheek is diff than activist mouth up butt.” An explanation would be greatly appreciated.

    Also, if Mr. Oxman could explain in greater detail the message he and his followers hope to get across to the public by carrying out The Plan, I’m listening.

    “It is forbidden to forbid!” Peace.

    Posted by Ralph Macchio from  on  11/13  at  06:07 AM

  17. I’ve been waiting for a while too. I have always been in sympathy with the aim of changing this caricature of a society.

    It is quite contrariwise to resort to ad hominem in building a movement.

    Nevertheless, first priority for me is the revolution.

    Posted by kim from  on  11/13  at  06:31 AM

  18. Someone writes above: “you are correct that an arrest can open up many forums, but what then—people that agree, agree anyways, people that don’t agree will keep on not agreeing and so on and so forth.”

    I would contend that Rosemarie Jackowski’s arrest and trial in Vermont probably opened a lot of people’s eyes to the U.S. military’s atrocities in Iraq. And, given that Rosemarie is a sixty-something grandmother and former member of the U.S. Air Force, I would bet that her act of resistance, or “theater” as some would describe it, probably changed some people’s minds on the issue of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq.  Rosemarie’s act of bravery, if copied by a growing number of other people in the coming months and years, in big cities and small towns across the nation, would likely have an impact on changing the minds of an even greater number of people.

    And if a greater number of soldiers in the coming months and years were willing to go to prison or Canada rather than get shipped off to take part in some imperial slaughter, it could have an impact on policy. Civil disobedience, as a form of resistance and theater, is not an outdated concept and does indeed have an impact on changing minds if used wisely, as in the case of Rosemarie’s arrest, and can change policy if targeted where it will hurt the government the most. The changes, however, won’t happen overnight.

    Posted by Mark Hand from  on  11/13  at  08:54 AM

  19. i want to share this interesting web site project that a friend sent me today. the performance/theater/rumor/website as activism is useful in my opinion in spreading information…

    http://72.3.131.10/

    while many of the photos in the gallery appear to be from ABBer’s who thought that their vote would change the world overnight, it is still heartening to see people apologizing for the atrocities of the US, even tho the sentiments are merely cathartic rather than revolutionary.

    -nancy

    Posted by nancy from  on  11/13  at  09:25 AM

  20. Mr. Oxman you stated “who exactly to people think they are teaching stuff about the media, etc. here with this readership?  You don’t think that something’s going to be spread that manifests into movement in solidarity...in time...do you?”

    May be not, but I must tell you that I introduce this website to many liberals who are ready to break free from CNN and liberalism in general and embrace radicalism.  Most people don’t ever see information that’s presented here or zmag(eventhough it sort of supported kerry), or counterpunch.  They only see mainstream garbage.  So, the more people we get to see websites like this the better.

    Alao, whatever we can do to introduce people to “progressive” or radical idea is beneficial.  If it public protesting, theatre, gossip, it doesn’t matter.

    “in the hopes that a few of you will be interested in DOING something about that stuff” Like what?

    Don’t most of us organize protests already?  Anti sweatshop, pro labor in front of walmart?  Reinforce the Jay treaty on the Peace Bridge in Buffalo?  Tuition hikes in the SUNY system?  We do this stuff, We’re out there!  A lot of people don’t care.  Conditions will improve for us as more and more ordinary people feel it.  We have to read about previous revolutions.

    Posted by elches1917 from  on  11/13  at  09:50 AM

  21. “Civil disobedience, as a form of resistance and theater, is not an outdated concept and does indeed have an impact on changing minds if used wisely, as in the case of Rosemarie’s arrest, and can change policy if targeted where it will hurt the government the most. The changes, however, won’t happen overnight.” Exactly so.  This http://www.asianamericans.com/TiananmenSquareJune51989.jpg) plus time, equals this (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/chin-n01.shtml).

    I also see a relationship between the lack of will of many to employ nonviolent direct actons of dissent… with what happens to children when they naturally employ such remedies in response to parental acts of authoritarianism.  If the will to dissent is squashed in childhood, it won’t see the light of day in adulthood.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/13  at  10:00 AM

  22. To focus on just one of NR’s points: The business of stuff not happening overnight is important. I am respectful of what you are saying, BUT one of the problems the left is experiencing --which is crucial-- is that they are stuck w the mindeset of the past whereby they think they have the same kind of time to let things brew and boil...and let evolution take its course.  Of course, zero will “push” what must take time to evolve, BUT...on certain things like certain environmental issues...stuff must be pushed w/o that mindeset...as we do NOT have the time, none of us...whatever our views; that’s diff than pushing to end genocide...for wh one could argue the same point.  Certainly we can no longer afford...as the Chinese cannot (to cite one of the article leads you provided)...to be taken out of the loop of protest and “marginalized” as in the past.  One example to ponder is the fact that in spite of Tienamen Sq...they recently banned bicycles in Shanghai. If readers think WE can wait for the dust to settle on stuff like that...then they inhabit a diff world than I do.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  10:46 AM

  23. dear mr hand, i am the ‘someone’ who said that arrests mean little any more, heroic though they may be (and heroism is one of the fine myths of amerikan society). with the help of computers everyone is entered into a directly available data base so anyone registered as such becomes ineffectual and immediately containable. rosemary has guts, but the problem lies as always in this country with obfuscation, idealism and constant debate. if citizens or military were arrested in large numbers do you really really think that it makes one iota difference in the regime’s policies ? oxman (if i read him right) very correctly said that earlier learned responses are impossible to change and this country is rigidly divided in those that do not want to see and those that see through a glass darkly (or clearly whatever the case may be), so i frankly cannot see an universal mental reversal as with the vietnam war. believe me, the regime learned pretty fast how to deal with such protests and refusals to comply. it is a dream to think that they are not clever. i am not one for going back again and again to history and what happened yesterday but i sincerely believe that methods such as you still think may be effective, are outdated. if radicals do not know how to adapt to different circumstances at different times, they will march surely right into what he regime wants.
    different times need different remedies.

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  11:15 AM

  24. Gui- I agree we should adopt new remedies for confronting the powers-that-be. But some of the old ones, tried and tested, still have value in certain situations. Like I said, Rosemarie’s street protest and arrest in Vermont at the launch of the U.S. ground invasion of Iraq in March 2003 was a great success. Her arrest brought attention to the ratcheting up of U.S. crimes in Iraq and her trial brought great attention to atrocities committed by the U.S. in the year between her arrest and trial.

    In a big city such as yours, new tactics probably should be adopted, given that the Democratic majority of citizens of the Big Apple have allowed their city’s police force and city officials to quash dissent and embrace more authoritarian tactics. All this talk about Blue states vs. Red states since the election has been absurd. New York City, where supposedly there’s an overwhelming majority of Democrats, continues to vote Republican mayors into office, albeit Giuliani and Bloomberg would be law-n-order Dems in many other portions of the country. The Democrats of New York City, if they truly cared about the ruthless tactics of their police and municipal officials, could easily have prevented the mass arrests of protesters during the Republican National Convention and not allowed those who were arrested to be placed into a giant contaminated holding area. But they don’t care. The fact is the Democratic majority in NYC is the problem. And the fact is, as many of us here at Press Action already believe, the Democrats are as much the problem across the nation as the Republicans. It’s not a Red state/Blue state divide. It’s an authoritarian elite and their followers (the overwhelming majority of the U.S. population – at least, for now) vs. those of us who favor a more inclusive, decentralized, tolerant, anarcho-libertarian, anti-authoritarian society and political framework.

    Posted by Mark Hand from  on  11/13  at  12:13 PM

  25. Dear Mark, if you allow me, that was a much better response. I do not want to denigrate Rosemary’s contribution as it was a very courageous act to do and maybe indeed effectual in her direct environment. frankly i do not think that it makes much difference where we act, only that we have to adopt better and more invidious if you will, tactics. and yes, attention was riveted to Rosemary’s trial (what a wonderful figure she made), but again i maintain it was in essence theatre. we thought so much about street theatre in the sixties and every single attempt became then already coopted. when marching with a very outspoken group during the rnc i was struck once again by the force of the street theatre and frankly the coffins brought me to tears as it was such a direct image of the consequences of the iraqi attack (even if they were signifying the deaths of americans only). but there it stopped, the media had a field day (we surely upped their salaries) and the rnc entirely ignored us. so my feelings are not so much involved with the democratic party in new york city. as you write it remains one or the other evil and/or the obstruction to any change. i entirely agree with you that new york is in the grip of compliance and cooption.
    demonstrations and arrests made very little headway here, strengthening my opinion that we are pursuing an ‘outmoded’ way of protest to work towards change. nor will ‘progressive’ writings much change people’s opinions i am afraid. we do have a better istuation now in my view, exactly because this election tore the country into two camps thereby making the balance awry. under a clinton or a kerry people could still be befuddled and engineerd. that has flown to a certain extent out of the window. now is the time i feel to act, not in the time ‘honored’ joy of demonstrating (and i will go on participating) but by a whole new apperception of what we can do. that is why oxman’s plan intrigues me personally. a revolution that cannot sustain differences, that cannot bend itself elastically to new ideas is dead in the water. best, gui

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  01:16 PM

  26. Rosemarie’s actions --and the like-- have value, as per Mark’s remarks. As per Gui’s contribution, we want to keep the Rosemaries of the Revolution out of jail, however, and in the Loop. I know I’ve said that many times here, but I believe it needs much more underscoring...as I don’t think the vast majority of readers really gets the point.  To keep our maximum strength AND to increase efficacy...we must follow new paradigms.  That will follow only from our discussing such in quarters such as these. That is not happening. Blessings to Mark and Mickey and Jordy and all who are, unquestionably, doing the very best the can at present...to make inroads, to make a difference.  I say this lest my ongoing criticism be mistaken for a lack of appreciation for what IS being done continually (that’s positive) from them...and others.  Hugs in solidarity, Richard

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  01:40 PM

  27. I must admit that I am enjoying my 15 minutes of fame on the PA site today...however, it is not about me.  I deserve no credit for what I did, because I did it because I was (and still am) in a crisis of conscience.  Every time that I buy a loaf of bread, I know that I am supporting this war economy. That means that part of my motive was a selfish one.  That being said, I just want to remind everyone that if more people did what I did on March 20, 2003, more than 100,000 who are now dead would still be alive, because we would have stopped the usual flow of commerce. Of course Acts of Conscience or Acts of Civil Disobedience should NEVER be done in place of more effective actions, but rather in addition to those other actions.  I believe that each one of us should be doing as much as we can, as often as we can.  Now, in this new world, resistance must be an important part of everyday life...a total commitment. I believe that Richy, and others who say that we must “wake up” the people have an important point.  I have said for a long time, that as long as the killing continues, all commercial and non-essential activites should stop. Every business, every school, every road should be shut down until the war crimes stop.  I look forward to the “big action” that will accomplish this, but urge everyone to not just sit back and wait. Do the smaller acts of resistance every day, while still working toward the Big One.

    Posted by rosemarie jackowski from  on  11/13  at  03:20 PM

  28. To make things simple on two counts, let’s consider the following...if you will. One, not berate yourself at all for eating a loaf of bread, regardless of whether or not you steal yours from corporate stores...as many of my acquantances do.  Two, it might be a healthy “starting point” for all talk and all action...if we assumed that there will NEVER be a Big One, as per Rosemarie’s comment above.  On a final note, I think I should add that even if that mythical number had mobilized (as per the “ideal” scenario delineated by Rosemarie) it is likely not to have stopped all the slaughter...as you all probably realize.  The abominations will begin to be significantly affected only after each reader has a major attitudinal adjustment; reading through comments and articles at Press Action alone should indicate that the vast majority of leftists (let alone the heft and bulk of the country) are nowhere near the point where they’re going to be involved in the kind of confrontation that McKinney, Goff and Parenti stressed (at OneDance)/warned against.  If they would not support such action...we must proceed, it seems, almost exclusively in other realms, some of which Rosemarie has touched upon.  Remember, please, that The Plan exists in great part...to stimulate creativity on other counts.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  03:37 PM

  29. i want to drop another penny: the united states as is well-known is a technologically highly developed country with an expansionist commercial credo, i.e. it is a well-designed apparatus for accumulating wealth by expanding its control over markets and resources by any means necessary. for that it needs the back-up collaboration of its citizens by allowing freedom of movement, freedom of assembly and freedom from personal reponsibility. these are good basic hardheaded pillars for commercial enterprise. and as long as it guarantees these freedoms very little harm can be done to the core business construct. the methods for the expansionist agenda vary from time to time, between a less openly assertive approach (say clinton’s way) and an honestly aggressive policy (like the bush’s), but in both cases the structure remains identical and un-moveable. should one wish for a change in direction one has to face a breakdown of the commercial underpinnings on which this society is built. changing the cosmetics leaves the muscles and bones as it were intact. now within the freedoms set up by the state one can join demonstrations within pre-determined parameters by the ‘controllers’ i.e. managing classes or protest by civil disobedience, causing arrest and legal proceedings. all these are well containable within the purpose of the business structure as it in fact demonstrates its tolerance of disagreement and thus these serve to strengthen the apperception within the population at large that the structure is in effect basically and in actuality flexible and open. it is a very common denominator of opinion amongst ‘progressives’ that therefore this is a structure sensitive to change from within, that is by the resistance and protest of concerned citizens. (to be continued in a next comment)

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  04:05 PM

  30. (continued from above): another remarkable freedom is that from responsibility, which though in fact more commonly found previously in western europe, has reached its apogee of acceptance in the us population. what i want to express with this is that as long as the state shows its tolerance of resistances and re-affirms its approval of a lack of personal responsibility for each and every person within its purview for its own actions, no re-construction of the social contract will ever be possible. it is if you will a better socially constructed system than say the russian empire before 1917, which equally controlled its citizens but where the pillars of control were less cleverly imbedded within the raison-d’etre of the system itself. no ideology shored it up like the american state has done (reason why i am not enthralled by the founding ‘fathers’). now one has a choice, either by trying to change the dominant ideology of the american state, which frankly as i outlined above will be well-nigh impossible within the population at large, exactly because this ideology is within the nature of the beast itself. or one can try to weaken the understructure of the state gradually by undermining as it were the basic functionings of its commercial enterprise. how to do that is now up for urgent discussion, because exactly as i wrote before, the united states are in a existentially wobbly position in this stage of its history due to the ‘elections’. now, did my penny wind up on its head or its tail ?

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  04:13 PM

  31. Wow, haven’t read all the comments here yet, but I think this shit is pretty clever.  I could see it working, in its own limited way.  Count me in.

    Posted by Justin from San Antonio, TX  on  11/13  at  04:49 PM

  32. hey justin, right on, baby! read the stuff, weed out what dont work for you. give us your opinion.
    believe me it aint limited if you put in your pennies worth…

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  04:58 PM

  33. Olive oil, yes. Now...enter Popeye.  The Mickey mobilizing remark calls for more mental meaningful thought.  No masturbatory mixing-it-up, I promise. To wit, I respectfully disagree...that the internet punching of a key is NOT excessive.  In and of itself, of course not.  But the fact is is that we all get tons of result of such punchings pushed onto our laps, toppling us over in terms of our limited heartbeats. So...if we embrace this or that “punch a key in” suggestion --which, admittedly, takes a second or sixty at best-- the best we’re likely to produce is...having someone Down Under and elsewhere delete. Respond to our pleas?  It’s not a very good bet, though it certainly can be tried; the prompting to do so --in my view--should take about as much time as what Chomsky advised us to take w picking a candidate to vote for.  On top of all else, the public is quite tired of online things that remind one of MoveOn mobilizing.  I will borrow imagery invoked my Mick. I live w an EXPERT on Punk Music...and I’d say the diff b. that kind of communication (wh in the generic sense was never polite, limited or generally appealing,etc.) and Lounge Music is...well, y’know.  I think that what we’ve got here is a case of Holiday Inn intruding on Fundamentals that are not Being Faced.  We CANNOT do all this stuff.  I’d recommend trading fifty “punches” for one attempt at helping me organize The Plan.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  06:28 PM

  34. Please read my Olive Oil/Popeye response to Mickey, et. al. in #34 directly above. I couldn’t help adding --bouncing off of Mickey’s citing of Italy-- that if you go to http://www.reporterassociati.org/index.php?Itemid=1 you’ll find my first article on Iris Chang (a second I hope will be posted HERE shortly)...on an Italian website...translated ABOVE several Arafat articles/obituaries (of a sort).  Interesting to me...and I hope it will be instructive to you...that there are people in the world who have no trouble placing the Chang death literally and figuratively above the passing of Arafat. This is not to be critical of anyone in particular...since it’s understandable how the People’s Magazine notion...that who’s “popular” should be covered “foremost, first” has run away w itself”...compounding ignorance upon ignorance...even in death. My second Chang article closes on this note, and someone here --Jordy, I believe-- did invoke the notion...that Arafat’s popularity warranted the excessive coverage given...in lieu of a spotlight on Iris.  Here’s to opening our irises.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  06:46 PM

  35. hey there, now i must confess that i rather like the italian putsch, though i doubt it would work here as the amurrikkan police is less tolerant than the italian one. but it surely is one way to cut into the commercial lines of the ‘system’. the ‘tutti bianchi’ group is tremendous and very well organized and though this is indeed street theatre it also is a sabotage which is quite delish and effective as it benefited the poor !

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  06:53 PM

  36. That was a very well-condensed worthy comment, G. Would that the stuff accomplished were also being done “privately” (with low personal profile, but just as much drama) here and abroad. So it’s not a come-and-go thing which people don’t seem to get can be tolerated. Ongoing nudges, low-profile enough so as not to be taken out of the loop, as dramatic as anything the big hooopla stuff affords, and consistent, but unpredictable...unnerving while laughable.  The great danger for those who have a talent/inclination in this area is that they will become enamoured of their own publicity, their accomplishments...in and of themselves. And, most sadly, need to be interviewed.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  08:41 PM

  37. yup, i see what you mean ox and as for my long comments # 29 and # 30, i did not include free speech as i think there is too much free speech already in this country. twenty-seven post-mortem election comments on counter punch, znet etc. and innumerable articles on iraq, arafat and what have you. i got clickety-click-itis from it all.

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/13  at  11:20 PM

  38. Yes, you’ve touched the Mother/Padre Load! While Extra! magazine and all the Norman Solomon lookalikes pontificate endlessly about how Media Lens in Britain and its counterparts in the US never stop slanting to The Right...we go right on ignoring what The Leftish media do regularly...in committing suicide.  To wit, they Redundant themselves to death!  They Academic their spines!  And...in the process...they put virtually all that might be progressive on the back burner, taking the easy quid pro quo...advancing careers, increasing popularity, maximizing socializing, etc. as they AVOID what will make a difference.  Like Pee Wee Herman might very well say..."Let them go back to the Playhouse.” Here’s to low profile rendezvous as others tear down trees in the name of pushiing their “much-needed” additional books for the marketplace, their ever-so-important next speech. When they’re ready to give up some comforts, perhaps there will be something for them to do.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/13  at  11:32 PM

  39. Justin,
    To save you the time of reading richard and gui’s inane banter above, here are some highlights:

    “To wit, they Redundant themselves to death!” [said by a man who posts about “the plan” several times a day]

    “i did not include free speech as i think there is too much free speech already in this country. twenty-seven post-mortem election comments on counter punch, znet etc. and innumerable articles on iraq, arafat and what have you. i got clickety-click-itis from it all.” -gui [gui - you have clickety-click-areaha]

    “Silence here and/or trying to let everyone just do their thing is tantamount to supporting our genocide.  We must move more, more quickly.  And I don’t mean...onto another website to clog blog space.” [uhm, richard, are you not alreayd clogging THIS blog space - space someone likely pays for?]

    -robyn ‘i don’t need a response - just needed to vent’ h.

    Posted by Robyn from  on  11/14  at  10:35 AM

  40. Getting back to an issue that were surfaced earlier, I recall something that AE once said which, I feel, bears some relevancy to our collective concerns here.  And if there is any truth in his words (which, I believe, most of us feel there is), then maybe we ought to include the creation of more effective truth-telling sources of information as part of our ongoing consideration of how to effect the changes that we all desire.

    “An oligarchy of private capital cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society because under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information.” -Albert Einstein

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/14  at  11:41 AM

  41. I believe the quote about the lie getting half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get up and put its pants on is actually Mark Twain.  In any event, if Churchill did indeed say it, he plagiarized Twain.

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from  on  11/14  at  12:00 PM

  42. Pearls before swine...to whom it may concern.  And I don’t mean Trace or NR. Loving best, Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/14  at  08:04 PM

  43. thank you robyn-who-doesnt-need-a-response, you are the perfect reason why i must stop commenting. btw it is written diarrhea.

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/14  at  08:52 PM

  44. I see Gui tomorrow. I’m sure we’ll talk about Robyn and related matters all day in SF. Or...as AE might say...anti-matter.  No matter, I submit (for now) that the Guister’s stance is something each individual must adopt as per personal inclination, etc. The matter to pay attention to, however, is that there are things such as sensitivity and silliness...and shifts made possible, sometimes, when one makes certain efforts...when the timing (in all senses) is right for all involved. Good fortune, Robs. Look forward to your hugs, Gui. Oxstir’emup

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/14  at  09:16 PM

  45. *notices the two references to Albert Einstein above*

    Since I possess alot of personal admiration for AE, I think I’ll make it a hat trick before I retire for the night.

    “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -AE

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/14  at  11:22 PM

  46. my instant comment here is for all to read richard
    oxman’s (also known as ‘the colorist’ for his rainbowed colorings)article, on SanDiegoMoon.com
    read it and weep for joy that someone is willing to do something at all

    Posted by gui rochat from new york again  on  11/18  at  07:57 PM

  47. Thanks for the cite, Gui.  I never would’ve known about Iris Chang otherwise.  Glad I do now.  The world is richer because of people like her.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/18  at  10:52 PM

  48. nader, did you read richard’s other piece in sandiegomoon ? making the green one red ? g.

    Posted by gui rochat from new york again  on  11/19  at  09:46 AM

  49. I did, Gui.  But the fact that I went further into his body of work, is a compliment to his craftsmanship.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/20  at  01:39 AM

    50. Next entry: To My Dear Sister in Fallujah

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