Saturday, November 06, 2004

A Non-ABB Take on Electoral Fraud

By Mickey Z.

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Posted 11/06 | Add a Comment

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  1. *Exactly how many “proofs” do we need that the “boofs” don’t work? I hope readers will see my piece on Counterpunch this weekend...which puts the sources below...in context.

    (See Yahoo, CounterPunch, Dissident Voice, Democracy Now and IPA.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/06  at  08:38 PM

  2. Excellent points, Mickey. One of the most effective means of resistance sometimes is to hold the shitty system accountable to itself. It is almost laughable on occasion to actually ask the ruling class to actually live up to its own fraudulent ideals. It was a fantastic impetus for black soldiers returning from the front in World War II, having fought, ostensibly for others’ freedom only to return to apartheid America. I think this is why Nader is going ahead with his request for a recount in NH. Yoda’s philosophy applies to “democracy”: You either DO or NO DO...there is no “try.”

    Posted by Dan Welch from Salem, MA  on  11/06  at  09:05 PM

  3. Gee golly, election fraud matters, even when it’s at the expense of a loathesome Democrat. Who’d a thunk it?

    It’s remarkable that the idea of tactical coalitions is so unpopular with American leftists that something as obvious as this even needs to said. God help us.

    Posted by mm from Brooklyn  on  11/06  at  09:27 PM

  4. Yes, citizens must Do The Count. No-brainer. But...exactly how do you think you’re going to get away w holding The Powers “accountable” for anything in this land of situational law?  Yes, coalitions and individuals are obligated to follow through w the officially sanctioned process to the nth degree. But, ultimately, both groups and individuals have to prepare for the inevitable day when The Law says..."Yes, legally you’re right...legally you’ve proven this and that, but we’re going to go THAT route with your frustrations, your grievances.” My point: To keep The Legal Heads who serve The Powers from taking you down THAT route --the one you don’t want to be forced to travel-- you must be preparing for what Direct Action you intend to take...AS YOUR PREPARE YOUR LEGAL BRIEFS. Citizens like to talk about legal shenanigans sometimes, like to take part in collecting data and proof...in lieu of brainstorming about the requisite/complementary Direct Action.  What are you going to DO about it?

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/06  at  11:32 PM

  5. Exactly so, Dan.  That is, indeed, why Ralph is holding the system accountable.

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/07  at  02:19 AM

  6. There are two ways to “hold the system” accountable. Ralph Nader knows that, but I don’t think most readers here know that.  RN’s job is to pursue “justice” through legal channels; certainly it is up to us to pull our weight in the other way.  The exposing, etc. the comes from RN going through the courts must lead to holding specific individuals accountable for the crimes they commit.  That will neither be done vis-a-vis the courts nor through talk about what Ralph’s doing or how bad the “baddies” are this week. The “system” won’t allow itself to be judged in the way that most supporters of RN’s actions seem to think it will; again, RN expects us to rise up and DO something that complements his efforts.  That’s what pressure on the system means.  The courts are designed to relieve the pressure on the culpable; RN proceeds in the face of that fact, knowingly, as it is the only avenue open to him.  That’s not true for us.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/07  at  11:07 AM

  7. There is only FREEDOM OF THE PRESS for those who own the press, and there is only justice in the court system for those who have enough money to buy it.  For people like you and me, the SYSTEM HAS BEEN BROKEN for a long time.  All systems are breaking down...the electoral system, the jury system, the judicial system.  The legislative process has been contaminated for many years and is now almost useless.  The only answer is creative intervention.  NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE....rosemarie

    Posted by rosemarie jackowski from  on  11/07  at  11:25 AM

  8. I want to respond to mm above. Hi mm! First, let’s keep in mind that Democrats go ballistic on those who might prefer another avenue of political action. Look at the attack machine they aimed at Nader and the customized velvet pillow gloves they have for Bush. Here’s an example of how deep the party loyalty goes: just the other day, I sent a friend a few pieces outlining the independent take on the post election fallout. Her response was ice cold. What I think no longer matters because I’m one of ‘them’. Extreme response? I dunno. I don’t think so ... she, like many party faithful, simply hates Nader for 2000. (Why she never seems to ask how Gore lost Tennessee is lost on me.) Now, the Democrats recent impulse response was to try and blame Nader again! (Suellentrop) Furthermore, Democrats have consistently tried to thwart attempts for a good left party to surface in the U.S. They are the third way ... we think it’s the same as the first way. Whatever happened to the second way? Considering how the Democratic establishment (politicos, apparatchiks, some press organs) treated Nader, it should be no suprise that the committed left is suspicious, unimpressed and thinks Democrats deserve what they got. I’m giving props to Mick for pointing out the obvious and thinking of the collective good ... the good of the people. (By the way Mick, props!) When did Democrats ever accept letting Nader go big in the safe states? No, Nader is evil. He must be stopped. Assimilate. Assimilate. Please. Tactical coalitions should be in all parties’ interest. I say: if someone like Mick is ready to give the Democrats some more good anti-Bush ammo (like so many gave them about the war and a slew of other huge issues), Democrats should start giving the rising left some positive establishment press, not demonizations. Right now, the underground press could sink the Democrats. Fair is fair. That’s the deal.

    Posted by Theo from  on  11/07  at  02:39 PM

  9. Given the choice between the fox or the wolf in the chickem coop, I choose neither.  I couldn’t care less what the fox will do in the future to increase its chances of ruling the chicken coop instead of the wolf.  Both are predators and do not have the best interests of the domicile that they take turns exploiting.  So what to do?  This picture says it all:http://www.resistance.org.au/resrev/symbol03/org01.jpg

    Posted by Nader Rider from  on  11/07  at  02:56 PM

  10. That remains reasonable Nader Rider.

    Posted by Theo from  on  11/07  at  03:10 PM

  11. Actually, our old buddy Thom Hartmann (ABBer though he is) hit the nail on the head:

    “Why are We the People allowing private, for profit corporations, answerable only to their officers and boards of directors, and loyal only to agendas and politicians that will enhance their profitability, to handle our votes?”

    Technically, if there is no real election, all of the pre-election debate is by definition irrelevant. This is the point we have come to in our post modern/mortem democracy.

    Posted by Rhino Rick from  on  11/08  at  01:01 AM

  12. I’m going to go out on my little shaky limb here and say this election,the one before it,and who knows how many before that make something abundantly clear.Throw a shoe at me if you will,but here goes....

    Don’t you think it’s time to just accept the notion that Democrats and Republicans care far more about their particular PARTIES,than anything else?It reminds me of a couple of kids fighting("my dad’s bigger,better and stronger than yours,so there!"),both parties care nothing about real issues,nothing about the people they supposedly represent(um,that’s supposed to be us),nor do they give a shiny rat’s ass about who suffers as a result(um,that would be us).

    Admittedly,I know little about Nader(go ahead,throw another shoe at me,I’ve got good reflexes),but he seems far less comtemptable and corruptable than most politicians.Saying that however does not mean I feel any less strongly that this system of government is flawed,it always has been,and the current status quo will not be dumped until the people(umm,that would be us)DO something about dumping it.

    There’s a little saying I’ll paraphrase here from some of my more spiritual friends that goes a little like this:

    When the Universe wants your attention,first you get a whisper.Ignore it,you get a nudge.Ignore that,you get a small whap in the head.Ignore that and out comes the baseball bat.Still ignoring are you?Well,next comes a 2x4.Ignore the 2x4,the Universe brings on it’s own version of WMDs.Where do you think we are,say,right about now?Hmmm?

    Posted by Tammy from Metro Atlanta  on  11/08  at  06:30 AM

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