Wednesday, November 03, 2004

Post-Mortem: Let the Disobedience (and the Real Work) Begin

By Mickey Z.

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Posted 11/03 | Add a Comment

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  1. I am upset at the results, not beacuse Kerry lost, he really only started to look like a contender in the last several months (post botox). But that Cheney/Bush and the Neo Cons have a huge opportunity to spread there cancerous preaching far and wide. Whose quality of life and moral compass is correct (what is correct)...is this truly the land of the free and home of the brave or maybe the land of the coerced and home of the cowed. I hope that moderate voices on both sides will be heard and we are not mislead into more costly mistakes. Only time will tell.

    Posted by Ben Farber from  on  11/03  at  11:33 AM

  2. All I can say is thank God this bloody thing is over and done with...and what a monumental waste of time, effort, money and ‘good intentions’ it was. More than ever the electoral process cannot be counted on to change anything (even in a surface way.) Forget about waiting till 2008 and groveling at the foot of tepid democrats - if a change is going to come it’s going to have to come from the bottom up.

    Posted by CK from  on  11/03  at  12:24 PM

  3. Hey Mickey Z : I saw you on CSPAn Press room few weeks ago & was impressed by your “command of the facts”. I enjoyed the other panelists as well. I voted for Kerry yesterday & felt rather empty about it… when he lost, I initially felt awful, but I just read your history of groovy democrats from FDR...as w/the cspan show, this made me feel better...made me aware I was in a generally reprehensible society, no matter who’s in the (off)white house.
    The only thing that bugged me about the Cspan show was your plugging the Panthers. I’m 52, remember attending a rally in Bridgeport Ct(a model decayed city)in ‘69 and they were assholes. The guns & jive demeaned their valid community programs.
    But generally you’re incisive…
    Thanks, Jim Rader

    Posted by jim rader from  on  11/03  at  03:10 PM

  4. What do you get with a split, bickering left? ... how about ... The Right. Welcome to the machine.

    Posted by Theo from  on  11/03  at  03:50 PM

  5. What you have witnessed yesterday is identical to what the Australian public ahve also just experienced; a disenfranchised left spreading votes around the electoral system, a tepid Labor party with no policies or none of any difference to the Liberal party and presto a strengthened Liberal (far right) Party to march around and decide for the general populace what is best for it. Good Luck. As a very good friend always says “you deserve everything you get by playing the game”.
    Question if it really go so bad in the US that personal freedoms are taken away how many people would notice?

    Posted by blair from  on  11/03  at  06:06 PM

  6. The republicans cooked the voting machines.  That’s the only explanation that is both necessary and inescapable from what happened on Tuesday.  There is NO WAY that dubya pulled in 17% more votes on Tuesday than he did four years ago.  Kerry pulled in 8.5 % more votes than Gore did.  Nobody who voted for Gore would have possibly switched to Bush.  Go to votergate.org and watch the video to see how easy it is to cook the results with those machines, and how often it is done.  We didn’t have a real election on Tuesday.  All those people standing in line for hours in Florida and Ohio did not do so to vote for Bush, and you can take that to the bank.  The election was stolen.  Go to votergate and watch how easily it was done.

    Posted by Bill Cannon from  on  11/04  at  05:18 PM

  7. The only victims of a theft are those who powers of critical thought were stolen long ago.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  11/04  at  05:38 PM

  8. allelulah Mickey

    Posted by blair from  on  11/04  at  05:47 PM

  9. Thanks, Blair...but in my haste, I mistyped. Here goes: The only victims of a theft are those whose powers of critical thought were stolen long ago.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  11/04  at  05:55 PM

  10. So my strength in democracy is to be tested. I have always believed that in every term the victors feel vindicated and have been delivered the party they want and therefore feel no need to participate in the democracy they have voted for particularly when in the right. However the left (especially in this case) will need to continue to participate in democracy at the grass roots level. Democracy is about continued work on the ground and not just attending a polling booth one day every four years (or three in our antipodean case). Democracy is about working the streets and forums, educating and discussing, working and participating in society on a personal level.

    Posted by blair from  on  11/04  at  07:05 PM

  11. *Bush has lead us into an unwinable war where American boys are dying
    *Bush has taken away civil liberties from all Americans
    *Bush has aleinated Europe
    *Bush has increased the deficit while giving money back to the wealthy
    *Bush has pushed back enviromental standards
    *Bush has allowed assult rifles to appear back on our streets
    *Bush is feeding the oil industry and our freinds in Saudi Arabia, who took down our towers
    *Jobs were lost in Bush’s ecomomy
    *Bush’s policies are pro-Corporation where they are encourged to set up overseas and eliminate paying taxes, placing the tax burden on middle class income.
    *Health care costs are rising, Public University tuition have risen, most average americans are worse off than they were four years ago and he still gets re-elected
    I can go on more but what’s the sense. Another four years with Bush.

    Posted by Ken Balban from New York  on  11/04  at  11:31 PM

  12. No need to recount Bush’s crimes here, Ken. But I must remind you (for the umpteenth time) that Kerry supported Dubya every step of the way...and will continue to do so for the next four years. Time to forget the election and come up with new methods of dissent.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from  on  11/05  at  06:05 AM

  13. “Time to forget the election and come up with new methods of dissent”.Indeed we do.But,I would also argue we need a whole new paradigm or at least a place to operate from.See http://sandiegomoon.blogspot.com/ and you’ll get my drift on this one.

    Going at the problems using the wrong tools(or the same ones) is just spinning wheels and digging in deeper.The machine is broken,if nothing else the election was indeniable proof of that,if a person had no idea before now.This is why things have progressively got worse or not changed at all over the years.Things are the way they are because “the other side"is well organized,financially in charge,and so on and so forth.Crying about Kerry losing the election is like crying that your foot got stuck in the meat grinder instead of your entire leg.

    It’s really time for people to forget about “making the system better or more honest”.It’s not going to happen,it can’t.

    Posted by Tammy from Metro Atlanta  on  11/05  at  03:09 PM

  14. that’s votergate.tv, not votergate.org

    Go here, too.

    Print that out and study it.  You’ll see numbers that are absolutely impossible unless the totals were changed.  You’ll see the effects of what Bev Harris demonstrates in the video at votergate.tv

    The election was stolen, folks.  The proof is available to anyone who wants to bother to look at it.

    The people who are telling us that Iraq was not a mistake, and that it is a success, are the same people who opened up that spreadsheet program and changed the vote totals. 

    We need to send them to jail for a LONG time.

    Posted by Bill Cannon from  on  11/05  at  04:02 PM

  15. Thanks for pushing the http://sandiegomoon.blogspot.com/ article, Tammy. I worked half my butt off on it. For Bill Cannon and his followers, I trust you’ll see what a ruse it is to pursue such stats (as per my entry #13, attached to “Kerry’s Humiliating Defeat” article). There’s no need to print and study anything of the sort that is recommended re The Count; in fact, the only thing that’ll count will be what readers are involved in doing. The same old non-thing? What am I doing?  What do I recommend? Hopefully, someone will post my latest piece titled INVITATION TO THE BODILY SNATCHED.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/06  at  02:34 AM

  16. What continues to astound me and piss me off is that no one is holding anyone accountable for anything.The media has NO standards(mainstream media especially)and no accountability,and it’s not just The Faux News Channel.Of all people,journalists should be not only a voice speaking out against lies and corruption,they should be helping the public to unravel the complexity and real agenda behind"the system”.Instead,they’ve succombed to the real “god"in this country,money and power.All this talk of “bridging the gap” is so blindly being accepted by so many,one has to think there’s Prozac in the nation’s water supply.

    Americans have developed a habit that’s become steadily worse since Manifest Destiny.They hold other countries and peoples to standards they themselves ignore.They are truly blind to their own history,and think since we’re the “best"country on earth,we have the god given right to force what our definition of “freedom and liberty"is on other countries.But it doesn’t stop there.American corporations(ala McDonalds,WalMart for every day consumers,larger military/industrial giants on a government to government level)operate on the notion that the whole world is theirs for the taking,never mind what the actual people living in various places want or need.And we can’t understand why America is “so hated”?Give me a break.We’d never stand for another country doing that to us,we’d be by god up in arms about it.

    Again,I say,the system is broken beyond repair.Reforms haven’t worked,and they can not work because they are framed within the broken system.

    Posted by Tammy from Metro Atlanta  on  11/06  at  08:17 AM

  17. Yes ‘mam, Tam. Interesting how a film like OUTFOXED focuses on Fox...as if the prob’s not cross the board. It’s a perfect example of how Left-siders cushion themselves to sleep w Straw Men, easy targets to blah blah about.  Your focus here on the media deserves...now...something beyond what the Press the Press Movement was trying to generate.  To wit, as per an article titled INVITATION TO THE BODILY SNATCHED (which I trust Mark will post here shortly)...I’d like to see the Press CONTROLLED (albeit for short snatches of time) rather than pressed.  Next step would be to follow Nader’s lead to take back the airwaves, but...first...bypass the loooooong effort it’s going to take to do it all by the straight and narrow vis-a-vis the courts...which...as you indicate are unlikely..."colleagues" at the barricades.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/06  at  10:21 AM

  18. That’s a good one, “There’s no need to print and study anything...”

    It reminds me of the one that goes, “Who are ya gonna believe, ME or YOUR LYIN’ EYES?”
    .

    Posted by Bill Cannon from  on  11/06  at  09:30 PM

  19. To address the simplistic interpretation of what I said, Bill: There IS no need for that stuff in the sense that I thought was very clear.  To wit, in the sense that the scorecard is already in on what you seem to want to turn into an academic exercise, replete with the potential to come up w zero more than what we already know...that the election was a fraud, etc.  The use of the printing and studying would be what?  To avoid taking action against The Powers...as per the swallowing of the Supreme Court’s supreme slap in the face to the American public in 2000...on the part of our citizens?  Do yourself a favor and don’t reduce what I have to say to such meaninglessness.  Resist the temptation.  Rather, why not “Resist” in a more meaningful way?  Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you completely.  Even if I have, I think there are good points for one and all to consider here.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/06  at  11:17 PM

  20. if i am allowed to put my humble two pennies forth (i still pick them up on manhattan streets, though they are disdained by ‘the people’), oh and i despise that term ‘the american people’ as they dont exist. there are women children and men just like in batsowanaland and fallujah (even though they may be a bit more lucky here). but we should stop already bleating about the election, crimes and greed of the powerblocks and start taking action. we have now (and thank goddes, she is good !)a bit more awareness and polarization and we should use that for helping to break up the ‘status quo’. our thanks go of course also to mr. karl rove and his gang and not to forget dear ossie bin laden who gave so much to raise our consciousness...’per ardua ad astra’!

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/07  at  01:25 PM

  21. The “ and start taking action” part of Gui’s entry...begs for comment.  How ‘bout it folks? Gui’s got a lot of experience and well-intentioned motives. Keep in mind, if you will, that when John Brown went to Frederick Douglas to recruit individuals...FD decided not to join the potentially bloody fray.  But, hey, he DID support JB in quite an important way.  Say, why don’t we get a few of you to comment here regarding my proposal for “taking action” that was posted on Counterpunch’s Weekend offerings?  I’m certainly no JB on several counts, but we need to do a head count here.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/07  at  02:00 PM

  22. thank you richard, but one thing i abhor is being made ‘ a hero’, a sure sign of ineffectiveness.
    rather being a mole, subverting people’s thoughts.
    and that is where i now understand that action should be taken. of course one participates in demonstrations as they bend also people’s minds into the right direction and show nobody is alone in her/his alienation/wrong thinking. i refer here to a very ‘radical’ movie, called ‘Pleasantville’. look at it, folks, it is a doozy...!

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/07  at  02:12 PM

  23. Is there something that we disagree on, Gui? Perhaps a rewording of the first four lines of your entry #22 would help me. Ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/07  at  07:46 PM

  24. in answer to posting # 23: somehow my reply got mangled and parts of sentences disappeared. what i wanted to say is that ‘experience and well intentioned motives’ are fine, but we are all damaged (like the fifties French anti-capital punishment movie title: ‘nous sommes tous des assasins’)and i cannot claim any insight more than my neigbor. i do not disagree with richard,
    on the contrary and my reference to a mole subverting people’s thoughts is meant as a metaphor for enlightenment, in a buddhist way if you will, whereby the joy of resisting becomes an end in itself. every small step forward, even tho we are pushed back again and again, is a gain, every look back over one’s shoulder prevents a clear analysis of what needs to be done...my mention of picking up pennies is a symbol of the necessity of being aware of even the smallest victory over the forces of darkness (this because i just looked at ‘the lords of the ring’).

    Posted by gui rochat from new york  on  11/07  at  10:50 PM

    25. Next entry: Blaming America First, Part 3

    Previous entry: Election Day 2004 Journal

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