Thursday, October 28, 2004

Born to be Wild (About Video Games?)

By Mickey Z.

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Posted 10/28 | Add a Comment

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  1. Enjoyed the article.  Am making this post so I’m locked into monitoring the comments.

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from  on  10/28  at  09:56 PM

  2. Saying a child is locked into four choices in video game is like saying a child’s drawings are limited by the 8 color pack of jumbo Crayola crayons.  Both statements are not true.

    Both stimulate different parts of the brain.  There have been studies that have linked better cognitive problem solving skills to video games and traditional puzzle games.

    I think video games and drawing (for example) should both be encouraged for young kids.  Especially if there is someone there to interact with them.

    Posted by Jon Cortelyou from San Francisco  on  10/29  at  07:32 AM

  3. Mickey touches upon something here that people cross the board are in denial about, an abomination that is every bit as damning for us all as any of the other issues.  Those who rationalize an opposing view are blind.  Bravo. I trust that all readers will pay special attention --for their own personal awakening, if for no other reason-- to the point he makes about pleasure being okay...in and of itself, not needing to be attached to utilitarian purpose.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/29  at  09:37 AM

  4. The commentary made on the differences between “game” and “play” are unfounded and very poorly (at all?) researched.  They serve as a convenient but largely inaccurate crutch for a volatile and sensationalist piece.  I find it particularly distasteful to see such methods used to build such singular minded arguments.  Readers should always question the conclusions so easily reached by authors of this kind of shallow ‘journalism’.

    Posted by Exe from  on  10/29  at  03:18 PM

  5. What kind of research are you asking for?  What exactly is shallow in your view?  I’m totally open to hearing damning specifics on these counts.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/29  at  05:28 PM

  6. The video games I’ve seen are disgusting spectacles of gratuitous violence.  It is disappointing about The Daily Show with Jon Stewart that it accepts advertisement from corporations that produce these “games,” and the Armed Forces, and is overall all too commercialized.  But I digress.

    Video games are representative of the mindless violence so pervasive and endemic to our culture that are part and parcel of the US’s warlike foreign policy, the current wars in Iraq and Afhganistan, the one in Colombia off the radar, the CIA assassination of Allende in Chile in 1973, policy in Palestine, and all the rest of it. 

    One should not deduce where one can intuit said a philosopher who shall remain nameless.  You don’t always need to prove a proposition.  There are self-evident truths.  I don’t need any more proof that automobiles, and especially SUVs cause global warming, than the data available and to stand next to one in the summer, where it is twenty degrees warmer than it would otherwise be.

    Posted by Tracy McLellan from  on  10/29  at  05:33 PM

  7. I’m going to have to strongly disagree. Some video games are violent, but not all of them, and probably not even a majority. It’s just the media is obsessed with talking about the violent ones like Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat, etc. Our violent culture was created long before video games were. Also, videogames definitely offer a greater level of choice than voting does. I’ve been playing video games since I was 4 and will probably be going into video game design after college, and I know that at least some video games offer a great deal of freedom of choice. To speak of artistry, I firmly believe that video games themselves are an art and some video game designers have kept their imagination.

    Posted by Keruchi from  on  10/29  at  07:22 PM

  8. Does the person commenting in #7 think that he/she is teaching the writer of the article something with:  “Our violent culture was created long before video games were...”? Was the commentator given over to video games...as one would hand offspring over to...a babysitter? What about others?  Does the U.S. Army’s endorsement of many of the violent games on the market trouble Keruchi?  What does the fact that video games can be perceived as some kind of art form or that certain video creators may exhibit “creativity” have to do with the author’s main thrust? How does K define “freedom of choice?” These are just some of the questions that are begged from the entry.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/30  at  01:26 PM

  9. The first part of my post was replying to the comment before me more than to the article itself, sorry I didn’t clarify that. I wasn’t babysat by videogames as a child. I think that video games are similiar to literature as an art form, and literature follows a more linear path than video games, so I disagree with the point about video games having freedom of choice. The Army endorsing violent videogames does disturb me.

    Posted by Keruchi from  on  10/31  at  01:25 PM

  10. How are video games similar to literature as an art form? Please clarify what the issue is concerning freedom of choice.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/31  at  03:12 PM

  11. I consider video games to be more like books than movies because video games last longer and can develop storylines more, while in movies you would have to make a few sequels to have a really in-depth storyline. Also, video games can consist of mostly uninvolved smaller games like a book of short stories. I feel that video games that require one to solve problems or learn strategy use more imagination and freedom of choice than this article indicates.

    Posted by Keruchi from  on  10/31  at  09:36 PM

  12. Thanks for your detailed response, Keruchi; very kind of you. I think I should back up for the moment, however, and let Mickey Z respond, if he will.  I’m very curious, nevertheless, to know what you find “different” between the two, now that you’ve delineated the above.  Give a short contrast, heartbeats permitting, K. How are they significantly different...in your mind?

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  10/31  at  10:09 PM

  13. It’s a good subject, but this article so oversimplifies the problem that it makes me think you have no kids.

    For very young kids, there are LOTS of good, educational video games.  One of my kids learned to read with Blues Clues ABC.  In fact, MOST video games for the very young are educational.  Why?  Because four year olds don’t have the mental development and coordination for adventure or combat games.  But they can click on the letter A.  So your statement that very young kids are playing video games doesn’t alarm me.  Of course, as the kids get older, there are fewer educational games and more trash.

    Even for older kids, there are good choices.  And there’s a lot of stuff that’s neither good nor bad—brain candy.  It’s ok in small doses.

    You just have to be careful what your kids see and play with.  It’s an EXTREMELY difficult task, especially once your kids get older and they spend more time at other kids’ houses.  But a blanket condemnation of all video games is far too broad.

    Posted by H from  on  10/31  at  10:26 PM

  14. Although a video game player from time to time, and like Keruchi someone who has dabbled in elements of their construction, I would not completely dissmiss of violently disagree with any of what mickey has put forth, but I would like to offer some comments.

    Certianly if one plays chess there is set of rules - a pre-selected range of choices - but because there is a certain set of parameters does not necessarily rule out the possibility of creativity. while I appreciate Mickey’s comments regaurding non goal-oriented play, certainly as human ‘animals’ we also desire (and this is not taught or manufacted) at times to engage in competitive frolick in the same way bear cubs chase and wrestle with one another. This need not be some darwinian/capitatlist struggle for superiority (either physical or mental) but rather a good natured exhibition of individual ‘talent’ (for lack of a better word.) I’m not arguing in any way that video games they should be substitute for more ‘organic’ social activities (which they are often) but that they need not be the solitary, rigid, ‘button-pushing’, haze inducing activity that Mickey has made them out to be.

    The fact that what is most commonly ‘on offer’ need not be an idictment of the medium. That the U.S Army is developing (not merely endorsing I might add) video games is certain a problem. But certainly the nauseaus and wildly popular tecno-killing praise ‘literature’ of a Tom Clancy is a problem as well, and this is hardly a reflection of the compacity of literature…

    Posted by RzG from  on  11/01  at  02:58 AM

  15. The disgusting Clancy claptrap words are a downer, of course. But there’s a vast body of lit on the physiological and visceral components attached to video game involvement than does not apply to reading a book.  Components that physically alter the participant, damaging the body/mind in a different...more frightening way...if you will...’cause, if for no other reason, the scorecard’s not in yet on what the total effect is on people. I would submit --still waiting for Mickey to weigh in here on the basics-- that the U.S. military tackling our youth is more than “a problem.” I would say it’s quite intolerable, that it is another manifestation how how very negative forces are taking over our children during their formative years...in a way in which the Clancy analogy...does not address.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/01  at  10:07 AM

  16. The computer games industry never grows up.  This does not mean an idyllic Peter Pan-style childhood, but rather a rather perpetual adolescence...which society cannot afford.  ox

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/07  at  11:14 AM

  17. As someone who has a child,a boy,age 11,I can assert from real life experience that video games can and often DO rob a kid of alot of creative and outside the box type of thinking.The games do stimulate pleasure centers in the brain,thus making someone prone to wanting to play more to complete the tasks and so on.Alot of time can pass right by a person who is plugged into a game on a machine.

    As for the arguement that there are “some good games out there that teach basic ABCs and 123s”,I have to ask a question:How DID children learn such things before the advent of TV and video games?Hmmm?Was it perhaps a loving and kind adult who spent the time with them to help teach them?Was it being read to often,encouraged to read,encouraged to write,encouraged to play in the sun,the wind,the rain and talk about the things they saw and felt?Did adults used to encourage children to play outside,create things on their own,and spend less time perhaps encouraging consumerism,remaining indoors,which in turn can prepare a kid to become another faceless worker in a cubicle?

    The current American trend toward obesity and assorted dis-ease is directly related to things that make life"easier"and that would include sitting in front of some sort of screen for countless hours a day.Before jumping on the Leap Pad/Playstation/PC game bandwagon,it might be worth looking at a person to person mode of learning and relating to the world.The convienience(a word that starts with the prefix"con"if you hadn’t noticed)of technology doesn’t always mean it’s smarter than a less machine oriented approach.

    Posted by Tammy from Metro Atlanta  on  11/07  at  11:45 AM

  18. I said there were good video games.  I didn’t say you should use them as the primary means of raising your kids.  Everything in moderation. 

    I have four kids.  One of them was not responding well to normal teaching methods.  He wasn’t interested in reading “Hop on Pop” with me.  But he liked playing Blues Clues ABC.  It got him started.  Now he’s reading on his own.  So I’m glad we had that option.

    Just because some games are horrible is no reason to condemn them all.  You have to work VERY HARD to make sure your kids get the good stuff.  You have to think, plan, and work for your child’s benefit.

    Posted by H from  on  11/07  at  02:05 PM

  19. Let’s make this VERY easy. Let’s just say “of course” regarding the isolated benefits here and there vis-a-vis video games.  Then...let’s look at what is actually happening...what with their absolutely TAKING OVER...and, now, contributing in a major way to an attitudinal set nationwide that wants to KILL.  Plus.  Let’s look at the association of those “games” w other technological “advances” following that...and then let’s review where we are with this topic.  “Of course” as per the last H comment...for the sake of moving on.  Why are we stuck in arguing the occasional plus...when we are doing zero to interfere w what’s enveloping us.  Us plus some focus on ACTION is what’s called for, yes?  The “games” are a huge problem.

    Posted by Richard Oxman from  on  11/07  at  08:00 PM

  20. There CAN be benefits associated with children playing certain video games,I know this.I have an autistic child,video games were recommended for two reasons:One,to give him a sense of mastery(a nice psychologist’s term I think)and the second to help develop hand to eye co-ordination.

    However,there was a trade off here.Since these games do stimulate pleasure/feel good centers of the brain,they have enormous “addiction"potential.All you have to do is go to any arcade(or the game system in your living room perhaps)and observe what happens to kids who play these games regularly.

    Blues Clues was mentioned,part of Nickelodeon’s daily preschool line up.Nick is notorious for the marketing strategies aimed right at kids,as young as 2,with each show comes an onslaught of marketing,right down to underwear and diapers.Do you honestly think the nice folks at Nickelodeon give a damn about kids?

    Again,I pose the question,how did kids learn before the advent of"technological advances”?They learned by actual real life experiences,not simulated ones.They learned by one on one interaction with people,places,nature,touching,feeling,tasting,seeing,smelling,and engaging ALL their senses.

    By priming the pump so to speak with video/computer games at the preschool level,we are setting kids up to be more dependant on technology to learn from than actual real life experiences.

    The priorities,the real agendas at today’s schools(and in fact,the inception of public school from the beginning),is to prepare kids to get used to the idea of sitting in an office cubicle day after day,week after week for their whole lives.Video games help this process along by taking a child’s focus off anything but the screen in front of them.

    Again,I’ll say it.Throw any “learning disability"or “attention deficit"(or the alphabet soup of syndromes and disorders available to any parent today)out on the table,and I can show you a way to help that issue without the use of bells and whistles.And it can be done in ways that appeal to the child’s own preferred way of learning without being boring and tedious.I know it can be done because I’ve done it(after abandoning the advice of those"trust us,we’re the experts"type of folks.Insulting to me as a mother,as if I don’t know or can’t know what is best for my own child).

    Posted by Tammy from Metro Atlanta  on  11/08  at  07:20 AM

  21. You guys got me. I’d like to answer to all individually, but I’m not sure anyone will read this anyway.
    Big thanks to Mickey Z for his article.
    Yes Exe vs. Oxman, the article is “shallow” in that it’s more an opinion than a research. IMO MZ does not claim to present a scientist’s view but provoke discussion and what a great job was done! All of your opinions are valuable!
    I am an occasional gamer myself and can follow Keruchi in his claims related to creativity in games. Freedom of choice is “somehow” limited to, say, a keyboard or the 5-8 buttons of a “joypad” but the sheer amount of games available actually makes for very different “gamers"-workers-in-cubicle-to-be (what a stereotype!).
    And not all the games are the same and even the violent ones contain creativity.
    You all debated about this and R. Oxman called for action, well it comes down to this:
    Beat the beast with its own weapons! How?
    “H” made a point:
    ...work HARD to make sure your kids get the good stuff. ... think, plan, and work for your child.
    Not everybody can (has the patience to) do that. But together we can work on it. My wife and me work(ed) in education and ... well i thought at one point why not make the kids write (age 9-15) or just express themselves (the younger ones) ABOUT the games? Talk to your kids about what they experienced. This way you can make ANY game educational!
    Let’s cut it short here -I’ll gladly accept any critics.

    Posted by Boris O. from Croatia (Region Istria)/ Europe  on  02/19  at  04:27 AM
    22. Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. {/if}

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